The Plight of the Lonely Genius

October 7, 2007

This is something I’ve wanted to get off my chest for a long time, but it’s not acceptable in our culture. I’ve chosen to do it anonymously because this is really an attempt to vent for myself, and to give people like me some hope that they aren’t really alone, but it is not an attempt to make myself look good. It is impossible for me to “toot my own horn,” and I have no incentive to lie or exaggerate as long as no one knows who is writing.

So, The Plight of the Lonely Genius

I am a smart guy. From a universal perspective I am a grain of sand stuck to a grain of sand on an infinitesimal cosmic sand bar (which is in an infinite ocean of whatever, and you get the picture), but… relative to other people, I’m 4.8 standard deviations from the norm, according to the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale. But that’s crap. That test measures spatial/logical intelligence with some token trivial knowledge thrown in to skew it a bit, I guess — it was invented in 1939. Spatial/Logical intelligence is actually one of my weaker points. Even if the score is right on, instead of deflated, that’s a lot of standard deviations… that means that there aren’t that many people in the world who are as smart as I am:

IQ Distribution taken from Encarta

That chart above shows the distribution of IQs in the population. 100 is the median, and the percentages above the colors represent the proportion of the population that falls within that standard deviation, and the white vertical lines mark the standard deviations. At the very far right of the image, you’ll see that 0.1% of the population falls within four standard deviations of the median. My IQ falls almost one more standard deviation off to the right; that’s around 0.00131% of people.

Let me paint a picture. Roughly speaking, college graduates in the western world have IQ 115 or above (the top 25% of the population). People who attempt college tend to have IQ 100 or above (top 50% of the population). Although IQ doesn’t really work like this, here’s an analogy. A person below IQ 30, I believe, is not measurable: 30 is the limit for profound, non-functional retardation. At IQ 70, a person is mildly retarded: able to function, but unable to grasp abstract concepts.

To me, a person of average intelligence — let’s say dead on IQ 100– seems profoundly retarded. When I meet a person like that I can tell immediately from the person’s body language and general presence that he is of about average intelligence. He is unable to even understand my normal speech pattern. A relatively intelligent person, say IQ 140, seems mildly retarded to me. At least able to function in a conversation, able to grasp my speech without effort. I can carry on a normal, casual conversation with a person like that. That kind of interaction makes up the majority of the interaction in my life. However, when I try to talk about something that is interesting or challenging to me with a person like that, I leave them immediately. They glaze over, and if they attempt to carry on the conversation despite their clear confusion, they say things that make it clear that they don’t really grasp what I’m trying to say.

I know answers to questions that people don’t understand. The questions I mean. That’s a real pisser. To ask someone a question that they don’t even have the foundation of knowledge or understanding to put in context in such a way that they could begin thinking about an answer. That’s 99% of people, easily. Of the 1% that remain, 99% can’t answer the questions I pose. I want to talk about the questions that I don’t have answers for — those questions are for that .01% of people who can deal with questions like that.

It’s extremely frustrating. I don’t walk around looking down at people, but when I want to be engaged I can’t be most of the time. I want to sit down with a group of people and have a challenging conversation. That’s a big part of the attraction to my wife — she’s extremely intelligent and well-rounded. It’s hard for me to find really close friends because most people are transparent to me, like children.

This is also why I like graphic design so much. It’s a never-ending series of open-ended problems. I can’t simply “beat the curve,” or complete the field, then move on. I like that, and I have tons of room for improvement that I can’t see readily filling. But it doesn’t fill the void of having good friends — I’m a really social person, who doesn’t have a close group of friends that I connect with on a lot of levels.

That, in a nutshell, is the plight of the lonely genius. So here comes the backlash; I’ll try to address that preemptively.

You are basing most of your rant on IQ score. That says a lot about you.

Fair enough, but you might be surprised to know that I’m totally with you on that. People stuck on themselves because they have a high IQ, as though that means anything at all, drive me nuts — but this situation is a good example of my overarching point. My first inclination when talking about this is to dive into the rich, beautiful complexity of the human mind, and multiple intelligences, and the effect of motivation on natural aptitude, and the whole spectrum of topics addressing intelligence, then explore which of my needs aren’t being met with regard to my social life, but my brain is conditioned now to throw all that stuff out, because time and again I’ll start down that path, and the person or people I’m talking to will look me, confused, and after a pause say “So… your IQ is high?” It kills me.

So instead of saying what I really mean, I reduce my thoughts to dumbass arithmetic comparing intelligence quotients using a simple, unweighted number line. After all, there is at least a correlation between IQ and intelligence. So it’s totally my fault for discussing the topic in a ham-fisted, cut and dry kind of way, and I don’t blame you at all for thinking I’m a douche. There’s a reason I do it though, and it’s simply that about 99.9% of people don’t want to engage their brains.

And don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate people, and I don’t get angry with them. I love people a lot — more than just enjoying their company, I have an abiding compassion for people that really guides me in my life. I love learning, and I am not ashamed to say I don’t know jack about a lot of things — drawing is a great example. I’m only okay at it: I’m part of a sort of artist collective, and 90% of the people there blow me away, and I love that, because it provides room to grow. Most of the time that’s great. What I’m trying to say is that there comes a time when I want to be challenged in areas where I am strong, and it’s frustrating when I can’t find people who can provide that challenge.

Anyway, this is a vent meant to make people like me feel a little better, not an attempt at scientific accuracy, so I’m allowed to piss and moan in broad, unsubstantiated strokes about vague generalities, and no one can think I’m a dick for more than like 30 seconds.

Maybe you should work on your social skills. Not everyone is going to accommodate your conversation, sometimes you have to accommodate theirs.

Okay, another fair point, but this post really is just a bitch fest. I don’t have trouble relating to people at all, and I socialize quite a lot. And don’t think I’m equivocating here! Resist the natural urge to assume I’m trying to backpedal in an effort to make myself look better. I promise that’s not the case: if I wanted to be socially acceptable, I wouldn’t have started this blog. At the very beginning I said this isn’t socially acceptable, but it needs to be said, and I’m doing it anonymously to avoid the complication of saving face. I sort of committed myself to honesty for the duration by the way I introduced the topic.

I’m annoyed that you are talking down about so many people, maybe they don’t give a shit about what you have to say, get over it.

First, I understand your point completely, but it doesn’t apply to what I’m saying. I don’t accost random people with gobs of jargon. I think under normal circumstances a person might think I’m a nice, perhaps well-spoken person. I don’t break out the hard stuff until I’m in a conversation with a person who seems to be reasonably intelligent, and who shows an interest in the subject, or brings it up himself.

For example, one area that interests me is the potential for computing to affect the future of society in profound ways. I don’t talk about that until a computer geek starts talking about it to me. I find that after a few seconds of conversation, I’m saying things that the person isn’t really understanding. So, knowing that the person is interested in the subject, I rephrase in engaging and vivid language, trying to illustrate my point. Often the person grasps what I’m saying at least partially at that point, but has nothing to offer to the development of the conversation after that… so before I’ve even gotten my basic ideas on the subject out, this person has reached the capacity of their intelligence or education thus far, and although I’ve had a conversation about something I’m interested in, I have not been challenged at all.

To compensate, a lot of my friends are professors: they are older, and very well educated, and so they have a larger store of information and knowledge, but even those people have trouble following me then challenging me, because at some point one has to use the knowledge and experience he has to push his understanding further, through critical thinking. It’s that thinking that often lacks. My wife can challenge me in a lot of areas, but I know exactly one person who can challenge me in my favorite, highest aptitude area. Under current thinking it’s called “Existential Intelligence,” (Gardner) and it’s essentially “big question” intelligence. The guy I’m talking about has 2 PhDs, and he’s a great (weird) guy — the problem is that people like him are always busy. It takes a hyper focus on difficult problems and situations to engage a brain like his, so his time fills up, and we only get to sit and talk maybe once a month.

Isn’t it pompous to call yourself a “genius”?

This isn’t about being pompous — I struck down the social convention of staying quiet about one’s abilities when I opened this blog. Here, under the veil of anonymity, I can say what is and is not the case regardless of social convention. It is the case that I have exceptional abilities. That’s called being bright. To be a genius, it’s generally understood that a person can make quantum leaps in their thinking, instead of evolutionary steps.

For example, a bright artist can take an idea like a spoon, and say “what if this spoon was really huge, and it was sitting in a cityscape?” Spoon, to Really Large Spoon is an evolutionary step. An artistic genius can leap from the idea of a spoon to something totally original and unique, and execute it in a way that hit the core of the audience in a profound way.

I recognize that quantum thinking in myself, so I feel comfortable calling myself a genius for the purposes of this blog. In the end, I think genius is defined by accomplishments to some degree, so it’s not entirely fitting yet, but it gets the idea across.

What have you accomplished that would make you a genius?

Not enough, certainly, but I am young still. I am not one of those kids who was in college at seven years old, although I did skip several grades. Despite being very young, I have had at least two careers, one in graphic design, and my current one as an enterprise software engineer.

I tend to keep my age to myself because people ask difficult questions when they start to do the math. How exactly do I have x years of experience in this field if I’m only y years old? The fact of this blog should tell the reader that it’s not easy to say: “Well, you see, I’m a genius, and I learned the majority of your field over the course of a couple weekends when I was 9 years old. I did business through the internet with the help of my parents, so the quality of my work could speak for itself until I was old enough to have face time with clients. That’s why you’re twice as old as I am, but I am your boss.”

As for why I’m not in some think tank somewhere, it’s outside the scope of this post to explain my whole life. I’ll start with this though: there’s no way to “skip” undergrad college. I find undergrad studies to be mind numbing, but I must drag myself through it because I do hold hope that there is a graduate hard sciences program in the Ivy League somewhere that will challenge me. I’ve been going to college for nearly 5 years, attended 4 different universities during that time, and I’ve maintained a very high GPA throughout. I don’t think I’ve benefited much from it, except for the occasional bright spark in a professor from time to time, but I stay because I can’t get into a grad program without the four-year degree.

In the end, I realize that this blog will leave a sour taste in some peoples’ mouth for any of several reasons, but I hope that it helps its intended audience anyway. Lonely Geniuses, don’t give up, there are others out there.

226 Responses to “The Plight of the Lonely Genius”

  1. Mr. Roach Says:

    I often find smart people with shit jobs make the kinds of complaints you do. I’m an attorney. My social set consists chiefly of other high IQ people, professionals, and I went to top ten schools for college and grad school and made lifelong super high IQ friends at both. Did you lack these experienes? My girlfriend incidentally is in graduate school and went to undergraduate at Columbia. Maybe you should get some stick-to-it-ness and complete a program at one of these places, because your school hopping suggests a lack of maturity and discipline, without which your brains will be wasted.

  2. LG Says:

    I can see why you would might think that, but my school hopping has little to do with school, and more to do with happenstance. For example, my first university was a large state institution that I left because my wife’s job moved us to a different state. The next time I moved was so that I could save money on tuition by getting a faculty discount. The next move was due to job pressures making it less feasible to attend class during business hours. Incidentally, I wasn’t happy with the programs, but I didn’t leave any of them for that reason, my goal has always been to get through my credits and move on to higher education, and I’m a good trooper.

    But I hope your other point is correct. I hope that when I go to a top tier grad school, which I have the credentials for now (something I couldn’t say out of high school), I’ll discover the challenges and relationships I crave. Time will tell.

    My plan is to fulfill the obligations I have currently, and in a year to two years sell my house, and go to one of those schools.

    • Simon Says:

      If we believe this: , medical school is the brightest bunch you will find. (I find that hard to believe, but it goes well with my story so…) My mother went to medical school when she was in her late 30’s. She called me up one day fairly early on and said “I’ve been really looking forward to hanging out with all these really bright people.” Then there was a long pause, and finally she said “But you know, these are the same bozos I went to college with.”

      Grad school is a crap shoot. If you can get paid to work on your passion, that’s great. But you might do better to just make some money (doesn’t have to be much if you are willing to live like a grad student) and fund yourself, sidestep all the obligations, bureaucracy, and politics that come with academia. With the internet, you can still collaborate with people all around the world, and once you’ve made friends it’s not too hard to get temporary “research associate” positions at Unis you want to hang out in personally for a while. (I did this at Dartmouth last summer. My friend and roommate Garrett gets invited to unis and institutes regularly despite being “unaffiliated”. Etc.)

  3. A. Carrozza Says:

    If existential intelligence is, in fact, your favorite, highest aptitude– then that fact goes a long way towards explaining why you feel lonely in the way you describe. As rare as conventional intelligence is, existential intelligence is rarer still, by several orders of magnitude.

    I share the plight that you describe. I feel lonely because I can so rarely share my thoughts with others in a way that leaves me feeling understood– no less in a way that leads to stimulating, challenging conversation.

    In my efforts to share my thoughts with others, I feel like a world-class professional tennis player seeking a stimulating game at the local country club. I hit the ball over the net, but it never comes back. Never. So I end up either lobbing the ball against a wall, or playing at the level of a paraplegic two year old. (I assume that it’s okay for me to vent a little too, right?) Both options leave me feeling very lonely.

    I’ve recently developed some insight into the question of why wisdom (existential intellectual insight) can’t be book-learned like most other forms of knowledge/understanding. Interested in hearing it?

  4. LG Says:

    I have some theories as well, but I’m waiting with bated breath for your thoughts.

  5. A. Carrozza Says:

    Bated breath? Hmmmmm. I didn’t intend for my previous post to be any kind of virtual gauntlet, and I sincerely and genuinely hope that it didn’t come across that way. Neither do I wish to raise your hopes for stimulating conversation to an unrealistic level, only to let you down. I was just venting and, hopefully, commiserating.

    Let’s start this from the assumption that everything I wrote above is hogwash, and I’m really a clueless idiot whose self image is completely and utterly out of touch with reality. I’m perfectly comfortable with that. So, no expectations of brilliance or profound insight. Just mild curiosity, with the lingering hope that this guy may not be QUITE as dumb as I expect.

    Anyway, with regard to the question of why wisdom can’t be book-learned like other forms of knowledge and understanding– here are some preliminary thoughts…

  6. A. Carrozza Says:

    Human beings are not the logical, open-minded rationalists that they pretend to be. There’s an invisible dimension to human cognition that runs parallel to logical thought. For lack of a better term, let’s call it “belief” or “non-rational conditioning.” This dimension exists. That’s an unequivocal, objective fact. How we chose to define it, and how we attempt to explain it are different matters altogether— but it exists.

    In purely evolutionary terms, non-rational cognitive systems like “belief” or “conditioning” often take precedence over logical, rational thought simply because they are more effective at passing along genetic patterns. Human beings like to think of themselves as logical, rational creatures— but even in the most logical-minded of our species, unconscious, irrational, conditioned assumptions and beliefs define our reality.

    Anyway, it recently occurred to me that most of what I would define as “wisdom” runs exactly counter to popular, mainstream beliefs and values. Therefore, embracing them involves letting go of well-established and deep-seated cognitive assumptions— many of which are actually biologically “hard-wired” into our brains.

    Think about it. What do you consider to be “wisdom,” and how do such ideas or principles stand in relation to common, popular assumptions and modes of perception?

    To give a concrete example, the basic principles of Zen are really quite simple and easy to grasp. Here are a few: (

    1) All things are interconnected and interdependent, therefore nothing exists independently from anything else.

    (2) the universe is in a constant state of flux, and nothing exists in the same form for more than an instant at a time.

    (3) Thoughts and the words that define them are static, grossly overly-simplistic, cognitive “maps” of an infinite, multi-dimensional, dynamic reality. They have utility in the same way that a street map has utility— but only a fool would spread a map of Acapulco out in his back yard, place a lawn chair on top of it, and claim to have spent the weekend in Acapulco.

    These facts are pretty much self-evident. Could one really argue that a human being can exist without air, food, atmospheric pressure and warmth? If not, then drawing an absolute boundary around the body and defining it as a “separate” thing makes no sense. Could one really argue that a given individual is the “same” person at five years old as they are at eighty-five? Or that the simplistic, static concept of “Jew” or “Chicago” is the same as the infinitely complex, dynamic reality— the “territory” towards which the cognitive “map” is intended to point?

    Why then does it often take a lifetime to “master” the principles of zen? Why isn’t simply reading a primer on the topic sufficient to bring about “enlightenment”? Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that all of these principles run counter to our culturally-defined and biologically-hardwired cognitive programming. Wisdom has to swim “upstream.” Sometimes, like a horny salmon, it has to swim up a waterfall.

    For example, one of the quintessential functional principles of Life is the separation of “self” and “other.” Even a single-celled organism defines itself, in some rudimentary manner, as separate from prey and predator. That’s what makes it “Life.” (That, and its ability to replicate.) Every species, from bacteria to humans, depends on this “self and other” mode of perception, valuation, and relation for its very survival. Given that fact, any idea that runs counter to this cultural, linguistic, and biological programming must swim upstream.

    The more “wise” an idea is, the more strongly it counters our societal education, our cultural programming, our (partially hard-wired) linguistic programming, and our (hard-wired) innate biological programming.

    To return our concrete example, students of Zen spend hundreds of hours sitting in meditation (an activity that powerfully stimulates their nervous systems, and on-goingly influences their emotional and perceptive processes). They also chant sutras, and engage in one-on-one dialog with the Zen master, and perform a variety of other physical and interpersonal tasks and activities. Hopefully, during this time, the principles of zen are integrated into every facet of their waking lives. While this sort of physical, interactive activity is unnecessary in the acquisition of mathematical or engineering knowledge and skill, it is absolutely essential for the acquisition of “wisdom.”

    My sense is that, most likely, these traditional practices serve to bend, fold, stretch and— hopefully —“crack open” the unconscious (innate and culturally conditioned) premises and assumptions that define and rule a zen novice’s life and and thought processes.

    Another example is psychotherapy. Simply giving a person a book on the principles of psychology will not make them wiser (or happier). Psychotherapy usually involves on-going dialog, dream work, diary-keeping, etc. and all of these interactive activities serve to on-goingly integrate the abstract principles and concepts of psychology into ones daily physical existence. Like Zen training, it has to be physical and visceral— and it has to be conducted over an extended period of time— if it is to be effective at changing perception, valuation, and behavior.

    not simply a matter of adding intellectual knowledge. Rather, it’s a matter of shattering (or at least bending/folding) fossilized deeply-ingrained patterns of perception, valuation, thought, and behavior— mostly on an unconscious and non-rational level.

    This is just the serve. Unless you lob the ball back, the game itself doesn’t even begin. It’s nothing more than a serve…

  7. LG Says:

    I call that conditioning the “animal brain” — it’s very much at odds with enlightened thought, but I don’t see the dichotomy as being so adversarial.

    Your basic premise is that “wisdom” can’t be taught because it’s not about information, it’s about the process of thinking. I think we can both agree that “can’t be taught” is a misnomer, and we really mean it be taught in the traditional sense, much like a Zen koan: the point isn’t to convey information, the point is to change the way a student processes information.

    I think the reason for the disparity between cultural moors and wisdom, is that we, with our animal brains and higher minds, have two sets of values. One set is the set we present to the world, and the other is the set that allowed our genes to propagate to the exclusion of our ancient competitors. Very often, our stated goals and values, and those of our culture are at odds with our behavior, and it’s because of these animal values. We say love, but we are adulterers. We say charity, but we do not care. What we mean is impregnation and territory, tribal protection and annihilation.

    I think the process of acquiring wisdom is that of becoming conscious of the animal mind, and (one can hope) conquering it. In doing so we may bring the power of its primal, relentless nature to the altruism and abstract thought of the higher mind. To achieve this unity of being is no easy task, and I think the degree to which we have is what we commonly term “wisdom.”

    So, it’s not that wisdom runs totally against mainstream beliefs, it’s that mainstream beliefs serve an evolutionary purpose, secure in the frenzied, fearful belief in some eternal enemy, while higher beliefs serve the knowledge that externality itself is a construct of the lower mind.

    So, I don’t think it’s like two sides of a coin, as much as it is to two steps in a process.

    By the way, all that talk about using metaphors like maps to point toward the truth sounds an awfully lot like Taoism or some variant — are you a mystic?

  8. A. Carrozza Says:

    “Your basic premise is that “wisdom” can’t be taught because it’s not about information, it’s about the process of thinking.”

    It’s more multi-dimensional than that, and the more I think about this question, the more multi-dimensional it becomes. Wisdom CAN be put down on paper, and it can be book-learned. The empirical reality, however, is that wise words sprinkled on an unprepared human mind have about as much chance of soaking in as water poured over a duck’s back. The person reading those words of wisdom will most likely nod their head in recognition, then put the book down, and go on with their life as usual—continuing to perceive, think, and act in ways completely contrary to the concepts that they just recognized as being true.

    So, one facet or dimension of this problem is that (1) the ground must be cultivated (broken/softened) before the seeds of knowledge are dropped into it. The seed-dropping is book-learning, but the breaking and softening of the ground involves the process of thinking. A farmer’s ultimate goal is to plant and grow seeds, not to break up the ground. Similarlly, wisdom is acquired through the transfer of information (seeds). The shattering of fossilized perceptual and cognitive processes only serves to improve the chances of those seeds taking root.

    Having said that, (2) it’s also true that wisdom can result from changing the process of thinking. One book-learns science in two ways: accumulating information and developing an understanding of the principles of science. Mastering those principles makes one’s thought processes more sophisticated, leading to a form of wisdom. The same is true for the study of philosophy. One acquires a mastery of the principles of logic, in addition to simply accumulating knowledge, and one becomes functionally wiser as a result.

    But there are additional dimensions to this issue. One difference between wisdom and other forms of learning is that wisdom, by definition, involves a deep, profound understanding of REALITY, and reality is infinite in scope and depth. For example, a genius can master C++ in a weekend, but there’s no way to master the topic of “marriage” or “raising a child” or “overcoming cancer” in a weekend.

    Having been a college student for five years, you understand the realities and subtleties of higher education in a way, and to a degree, that you couldn’t possibly accomplish over the weekend in the public library at the age of nine. No matter how incredibly brilliant a person is, some things require down and dirty “in the field” experience, and that kind of life experience takes time. While I agree with what you wrote earlier about lying in job interviews, one must also acknowlege the reality that there is more to seven years of professional experience than simply mastering a certain amount of techical material.

    A young genius, no matter how brilliant, is severely handicapped in his or her attempt to acquire wisdom through pure book-learning. (3) Books and technical manuals aren’t Life, and you can’t cram Life. Even the most brilliant and studious cartiographer is clueless about geography until he hops on a boat and sails around the world for a few years.

    There’s a scene in the film Good Will Hunting in which Robin Williams tells Matt Damon that, having never physically visited the Sistine Chapel, his book-learned grasp of the reality of that place is one-dimensional and purely theoretical. He has no idea what it looks like, what it smells like, what one feels standing under Michelangelo’s handiwork. That’s exactly the point that I’m making here.

    Finally, you may have doubts about what I am about to say next, but it is unequivocal fact and, given a sufficient amount of time and writing space I could prove it beyond any shadow of doubt. The vast majority of accumulated knowledge is mis-information. Most of what is written in books, posted on the Internet, studied in school, and disseminated through the media is simply not true. A portion of it consists of self-serving conscious lies, but the bulk of it is simply mistaken. Lies, falsehoods, myths, unsubstantiated beliefs, naïve conclusions, imaginative fabrications, misunderstandings, fantasies, bunk, nonsense, cow dung, guano— whatever you want to call it, it has nothing whatsoever to do with reality.

    This has always been the case, and it is still the case today. The propagation of the mastery in principles of science and logic have, over time, served to mitigate the problem to a degree, but the reality is fundamentally unchanged. The Age of Information is, therefore, an Age of Misinformation.

    Consequently, young geniuses aren’t simply handicapped because Life experience is not easily crammable, but also to the extent that accumulated collections of knowledge— books, for example— are filled with misinformation. Books contain subjective interpretations of reality, not reality itself, and those interpretations are often mistaken, or at least naïve. To some extent, a bright person can see through the bunk and BS at a glance but, ultimately, (4) the only way to separate truth from falsehood is fieldwork.

    To answer your question– yes, I am a mystic. (But popular conceptualizations of “mysticism” or “enlightenment” are as overly simplistic and one-dimensional and those about intelligence and I.Q.)

    Books contain subjective interpretations of reality, not reality itself.

    I think the reason for the disparity between cultural moors and wisdom, is that we, with our animal brains and higher minds, have two sets of values. One set is the set we present to the world, and the other is the set that allowed our genes to propagate to the exclusion of our ancient competitors. Very often, our stated goals and values, and those of our culture are at odds with our behavior, and it’s because of these animal values. We say love, but we are adulterers. We say charity, but we do not care. What we mean is impregnation and territory, tribal protection and annihilation.
    I think the process of acquiring wisdom is that of becoming conscious of the animal mind, and (one can hope) conquering it. In doing so we may bring the power of its primal, relentless nature to the altruism and abstract thought of the higher mind. To achieve this unity of being is no easy task, and I think the degree to which we have is what we commonly term “wisdom.”
    So, it’s not that wisdom runs totally against mainstream beliefs, it’s that mainstream beliefs serve an evolutionary purpose, secure in the frenzied, fearful belief in some eternal enemy, while higher beliefs serve the knowledge that externality itself is a construct of the lower mind.
    So, I don’t think it’s like two sides of a coin, as much as it is to two steps in a process.
    By the way, all that talk about using metaphors like maps to point toward the truth sounds an awfully lot like Taoism or some variant — are you a mystic?

  9. A. Carrozza Says:

    Sorry. I accidentally posted some scraps of your earlier response at the end of my last entry. That isn’t supposed to be there. I’ll be more careful next time.

  10. A. Carrozza Says:

    “…Mainstream beliefs serve an evolutionary purpose, secure in the frenzied, fearful belief in some eternal enemy, while higher beliefs serve the knowledge that externality itself is a construct of the lower mind. So, I don’t think it’s like two sides of a coin, as much as it is to two steps in a process.”

    Yes! Absolutely. That’s perfect.

    The challenge is that, in a given individual, “animal brain” and “enlightened thought” often seem to be at odds, at least in my own experience. Evolutionarily, higher brain function and spirituality can’t exist without the animal brain, but integrating them can be very difficult.

    If human beings were really as rational as they pretend to be, it wouldn’t be such a big problem. But the harsh reality is that the animal brain is the default system in most people. It usually overrides higher brain function and enlightened thought whenever the two collide– in most people, in my experience.

    And, of course, compassion, love, and altruism are manifestations of the “animal brain,” too. Compassion and empathy can certainly result from intellectual insight into the reality of interconnection and interdependence– or intelligent comprehension of parallels between the suffering of others and one’s own suffering– but, since primates are social animals, we also have deeply ingrained instincts for collaborating, sharing, nurturing, and loving.

    My own personal belief is that most people aren’t smart enough, or wise enough, to act lovingly or generously as a result of intellectual insight into the true nature of reality. I may be proven wrong in this but, at this point in my life, I truly believe that the vast majority of people are mindless, naive slaves to their unconscious instinctive programming and unconscious life conditioning. I know that it’s a very pessimistic perspective, and I’d love to see it proven untrue, but I won’t believe it until I see it (proven untrue).

    If we tentatively and hypothetically accept that assertion as being true, then– for the majority of people, at least– it’s not so much a matter of lower “animal brain” vs. higher “enlightened consciousness,” as much as selfish-fearful-aggressive “animal brain” versus, compassionate, maturnal, nurturing social “animal brain.”

    This opens up a whole new can of worms– a facinating one that ultimately brings up the question of the fundamental nature of human consciousness and the essential nature of the self.

  11. A. Carrozza Says:

    … and I don’t (yet) have the answers to those questions. I don’t mind throwing around some ideas, though.

  12. A. Carrozza Says:

    In reading over and reflecting on what I wrote earlier, I realize that some of my comments that I made with regard to the challenges facing a young genius may– how should I say this? Well… I don’t know how to put it… well, the things that I said may not be something that you want to hear. And saying them may have been insensitive.

    I didn’t realize, when I wrote those words, that I might be writing something that could be threatening in any way to anyone’s sense of self– but, having experienced (myself) exactly the same kind of frustration and loneliness that you describe– and having had the very same desire to bitch and moan about my own plight…

    … and having developed, in my own egoic, unenlightened monkey brain, a deepseated, quasi-paranoid fear of anything that threatens my sense of intellectual superiority… well…

    … the thought occurs to me that maybe what I wrote earlier about the challenges that a young genius faces in attempting to acquire wisdom through book-learning may have been offensive or threatening.

    Well, threatening isn’t really the right word. I’m sorry for being so clumsy in my attempts to communicate here, but I find myself at a loss to find the phraseology. In a nutshell, I hope I didn’t offend you.

    That’s basically what I wanted to say…

    • James Says:

      I enjoy reading your posts. I’m young and still vividly remember what happened earlier in my life when i was younger. I’m 17 just to give you a reference on what i will write. Well yes wisdom as you have talked about can be acquired in any way but the mind/base needs to be prepared to receive such a thing. For me how it went was I amassed a lot of information on my surroundings for about 2-3 years. Made my own analyses that led to one thing and to the other. After 3 years I came to a state of half wisdom since I still didn’t let go of all my ego and emotions(by letting go i mean control in a way*). I talked to my father which would be the same level of intellect of you guys hes 52 years old so he had acquired wisdom a long time ago. Luckily I found someone in my entourage to discuss my capacities with… And well your words are in no way threatening just maybe a bit erronous but the analysis is great it may be just because of the lack of information that it wasn’t completely right. I’m young and I see your ideas and words as a guideline to future analysis. Thanks a lot and keep thinking like you do

  13. LG Says:

    You think too much Carroza! I am about half way through my response– I just became busy, so I had to wait on a reply. Sorry to worry you, no offense taken whatsoever!

    • James Says:

      Hmm LG could you tell me how old are you if it isn’t too imposing from my part or personal.. Thanks

  14. […] is an outgrowth of the conversation between A. Carrozza and I in the comments of my opening post, The Plight of the Lonely Genius. The question is, why can’t wisdom be […]

  15. LG Says:

    I split the topic into a whole new post, please see here:

    Pedagogy of the Existential Genius

  16. Sylex Says:

    This post literally brought a tear to my eyes, so many of your experiences ring true. So utterly and uniquely true.
    You’ll have t excuse me a bit tonight, I’ve just pulled an all nighter, and randomly stumbled across this page while thinking about the loneliness of life as (for a lack of a better word) “genius”. For the same reasons you mentioned regarding “true-friends.”
    Your post is so far beyond almost anyone’s range of empathy that sadly it will be grossly misunderstood. How can anyone ever understand what you “truly” mean with the reference to “existential intelligence” without having experienced that level of thought? I’m just curious if some of the replies to your post irritate you as much as they irritate me. As far as you are concerned some of these people might as well have read another post. I generally have trouble exercising the mind because when I talk to someone, I have to stop and explain the base knowledge needed for one concept which then leads to the base knowledge just to understand the concept to understand the original concept. It will often very rapidly spider web out of control as up to a dozen layers of base knowledge need to be explained just to explain the original concept. I tend to use analogies almost every time I talk to anyone. While I can excel socially, it’s always through a “social mask”, playing a role, hiding the true me. Sometimes I’ll accidentally let lose my full thought or personality only to see the individual instantly glaze over, get a headache, or react with a mixture or fear and excitement. It’s a life of constant unending loneliness, to walk alone among society but never feel one with it and it’s members. The best analogy I can use is to imagine one’s self suddenly stranded for life in a Zulu tribe permanently and have to live the rest of your life as one. I believe one of the main problems at the heart of the issue is that being a (whatever you want to call it) “genius?” I believe we think in a different base format even then others. So while a balloon might appear as 2D (32-bit) etc… to us we see the world and EVERY object, concept, and issue as 3D (64bit) etc… So when we try to explain a concept, it is as we view, the concept which involves far more information, far greater detail, we pass on 3D/64-bit data to a 2D/32-bit system.
    You have managed to at least affect one individual. I’ve always thought I was the only one. Certainly the smartest person I’ve ever met. (This is the point 99.999% of people will see ego, but perhaps you will understand).
    God life can just be so frustrating to have to force your brain to slow down just to communicate intelligibly. How you will so often say something to someone and be shocked when they perform some absurd act, because in your mind the logical implications of your words were dozens of steps ahead of the conclusion they reached.
    Really life has been very frustrating when even the average “genius” seems mentally retarded. I have so much, to say I could just talk for hours. It seems pointless to state it here, everyone will read the words but no one will understand them. All they will see is a pompous egotistical individual.
    Is there anyway to contact you by e-mail?


    if anyone else feels the same way and wishes to have an intelligent conversation, or just exercise the mind and toss back and fourth some concepts, feel free to e-mail me at:

    • James Says:

      my email is thats my social one for friends ect but u can add that one. Another thing is on this blog everyone or mostly everyone will understand you. From what I’ve read people here are at your level or around it. Glad to hear your thoughts on everything.

  17. Just found your blog through a random link. I’m not sure I qualify as being a genius (a word that’s basically meaningless), but I do have some perspective from somebody who’s a little older.

    I do think your idea from later posts to find a great school is important. I would have gone nuts if I hadn’t gotten to MIT at 16 – finally being around people who could keep up with me was like arriving home for the very first time. My MIT friends are still my closest friends, and are the community with whom I communicate best.

    I definitely understand the frustration with not being able to have the conversations you want. I started my blog so that I’d have a place to think about these sorts of issues when I couldn’t find time for a conversation with my brilliant friends (who are all busy off changing the world).

    I don’t have time to write any more just now, but I wanted to drop a note of encouragement, and let you know I’d be happy to chat if you want to follow up by email.

  18. Ben Richardson Says:

    Thanks for the forum. It doesn’t do much for the loneliness, but it does validate it. I’ve often wondered if life would be more fulfilling (I’m too social I suppose) in a less cognitive state.

  19. Ken Says:

    Maybe there’s an intellectual event horizon over which the information coming into one’s brain grows curiosity by more than a factor of 1.0 — a point at which a person sees enough to want to see more.

    Whether that’s a good thing is subjective, but I’ll say that those who wish to be on the lower side of that threshold had better thank their lucky stars that others choose to be on the higher end, otherwise their hypothetical happiness would not be possible.

    I’d say as a policy, living above that threshold, as painful as we all find it currently, is the better way to live because it’s sustainable.

    • James Says:

      It indeed allows you to do more. But depending on your personality you may crumble under the pressure or master it. Anyways I won’t babble too much.

  20. Ricky Laboe Says:

    hey man i totally know what u mean nice to know there are some other cool ppl out there 2 ^_^

    and carrozza….
    My own personal belief is that most people aren’t smart enough, or wise enough, to act lovingly or generously as a result of intellectual insight into the true nature of reality. I may be proven wrong in this but, at this point in my life, I truly believe that the vast majority of people are mindless, naive slaves to their unconscious instinctive programming and unconscious life conditioning. I know that it’s a very pessimistic perspective, and I’d love to see it proven untrue, but I won’t believe it until I see it (proven untrue).

    all I can say is yes! unfortunately.
    i guess i personally just try to be an example of true love and compassion to others
    ive found that i have a great knack for making anyone laugh, which is nice, because thats really all i can share with most people, on that basic, human essence type of level
    my own thoughts,connections, and meditations stay w/ me for the most part
    hopefully, maybe someday there’ll be like a mindshare technology, or a badass noosphere type of thing
    taht would definitely change the world in ways that idk

  21. Astroman Says:

    Let’s pose a question. If you were building satellites and found a rock with the big dipper and the little dipper carved into it. And (this is a big and) there was an extra star in the cup of the big dipper. What would you think about that extra star?

    • James Says:

      Hmm I’d say that’s an exception to what is the cosmos or what the population of the cosmos/space is. Your analogy to society or to the human race is made from your point of view/interest which might be astronomy but it is indeed a great analogy. Thanks for sharing that with us.

      • James Says:

        Bleh I’d like to correct my post but can’t guess you’ll have to read it. I was thinking of anothe thing while reading your post but anyways.***

  22. Ken Says:

    I’m not sure what you’re asking, Astroman. I assume you mean building artificial satellites, but I’m not clear when, during the course of satellite construction, I might find a rock at all, never mind one with constellations in it. Could you clarify the question a bit?

  23. Astroman Says:

    First the irony is that you are building space age equipment (NEW) and you find an artifact of the Indians that is (OLD). On the same land the old and new co-exist.

    Now suppose you show the artifact to a fellow co-worker and they too recognise the big dipper and the little dipper carved into the stone with the holes in proportion to the brightness of the stars. The brighter the star, the bigger the drill hole (conical). Inside the cup of the big dipper is an extra drill hole.

    What would be your thoughts about that extra hole. And if you found the stone what do you think you would do?

  24. Astroman Says:

    1. I found one stone with the big dipper on it in the garden. The another with a painting of a comet that explodes into 3 comets. Another of a rendition of the asteroid apophis (the asteroid that could come between the earth and the moon under the level of our geosynchronous satellites.

    The problem I had was that the people that do archaeology don’t do astronomy. The people who do astonomy don’t do archaeology.

    I took the drilled stone to San Jose State University and had an antropologist confirm that yes, the holes were drilled by man (ancient man). He was an expert in patina and could tell it was the big dipper and little dipper and that yes the holes were conical and probably made by a crystal.

    He also confirmed that the paintings were probably made of animal fat and he called the paint latex because of that fact.

    I received an email from Russel Schweickart who said that yes the Native Americans could see and paint some of the Near Earth asteroids and he forwarded a copy of my photograph of the painting of apophis to Dan Durda who was himself an artist. Dan had a painting of Apophis in the next month’s issue of an astronomy magazine.

    The first thing that I can say is that our society is simply not inspired by some of the most interesting history right below our feet. Secondly when I showed the drilled stone to an Engineer with a PHD she said somebody probably just threw the rock there and that I couldn’t say it was an Native American artifact because I didn’t have an Archaeology Degree.

    Since then because she enraged me so much, I studied ancient artifacts from Egypt and England and Wales and can find multiple carvings in stone of the near earth asteroids. I also found that there were several books written about the Earth tilting and a large asteroid strike around 685 B.C.

    There is an Native American tale of Black God who when he stamped his feet four times the Pliedes moved up on his forhead. To me this could indicate a pole shift from either four close encounters with the orbit of a heavy mass or four impacts. In any case the North Polar orbit would have shifted four times.

    Also the Earth’s spin was changed. One can find another book about the near destruction of all human life on the planet about 10500 B.C. (Cataclism)

    How does this relate to what you are all about? I can see connections and even feel the energy of the early bright thinkers who accurately tried to portray the Heavens and for the case of some their own iminent demise as the fatal asteroid was coming down.

    I practice Buddhism and have tried to open up my mind to connecting with the spirits of those who have passed to the spiritual world. There are a great many tales that were recorded for us to explore. The great cities from 10,000 to 20,000 years ago may well lie under water at the polar ice melts and has risen hundreds of feet from what it was in the past.

    Therefore there could be some very enlightening developments in the world of underwater archaeology. There appears to be a lot of pyramids at the same time all over the Earth. To me they look as if they served as fallout shelters. (for cylic meteor storms)

    So a simple little extra hole in the cup of the big dipper was cause for a lot of study on my part. There are still several answers to this question.

    1) A comet in the big dipper (happens periodically)
    2) The old pole of the Earth’s rotation (changed by cosmic events of a near encounter)
    3) A star that was swallowed by a black hole

    I have found articals that indicate there is a Black Hole in Ursa Major that does devour stars.

    The simple answer to my question is:

    If I found a stone with the Big Dipper and Little Dipper drilled into it, I would like to know who carved it and when.

  25. Terry Says:

    This post made my day. While my IQ is somewhat less than the author’s, I am nonetheless one of those lonely “geniuses.” Reading this post won’t help me relate to most people any sooner, but it made me feel better at this moment.
    I don’t know how many times I’ve watched someone’s eyes glaze over while I explain my views on the topic at hand. The simple act of dating is a challenge.
    My dates generally find me engaging and fun to be with, however I often have to limit myself in regards to the topic and scope of conversation. I quickly become bored and start looking for stimulation elsewhere.
    Thank you for the honesty of your blog. It did help to remind me that I’m not only not alone, but that there are other people farther from the norm than, and finding even fewer people to connect with, than I.

  26. sylvester Says:

    astroman i must say i have to agree with you that we have by far to much lost knwlage buried beneath us. the human race is much older than 20 000 years , but apparently we have only just ( relatively) begun to become “civilized” . my question here is what have we been doing all along? it puzzles me greatly. why was it that so many advance in civilazation have been lost? i have alot of reasearch to do yet on the matterm but it seems to me that yes the iceage did destroy alot of our civilizations and threw us back in development a few thousand years. what caused it though? was it simply the ice age? or was there some sort of wild viral plauge that destroyed too much of the infrastructre? or did it as they simply said sink beneath the earth?

    i am very much interested in meet other like minded persons. i currently live in the very small close minded state of trinidad and tobago where to say the least open intellectual disscussions are difficult to find thanx tothe amazingly efficent nature of an education system designed to accept and not question

    i can be contacted though this email if you are interested

  27. Pete A Jarnstrom Says:

    Hi, I’m not so smart but I do have a suggestion for you. Now this may be counter intuitive, but since there is a relationship with the body and brain (actually they are one in the same but that is how the language is used) “physically” exercise in a sophisticated and intense evolving exercise program of some sort while objectively studying your body (listen to recorded lectures) focusing heavily on neurobiology and how movement affects brain and biochemistry. I say this because you are having an existential problem and a communication standard cut off from most everyone. You down grade your intelligence in order to integrate and feel bad doing so for obvious reasons. This puts you in a moral conundrum. You want a congruent and integrated life. You like people.

    The social sciences are mostly human bias expressed linguistically. You I’m sure see the true parts in certain thought patterns and then people’s unknowing and unknowable self deception based on self interest. Your answer is for this existential part of your problem is not to be found in precedent thought.

    You may fear uncertainty and that is why you have not broken away and acted on your inner most desires. You question your desires and that probably shows character.

    You don’t want to be alone so what else should you do when working out and studying the objective material that makes up your human body? Allow yourself to break away from connecting with others on an intellectual level. Get that stimulus from the highest sources you need to accept that is a basic need and a right for you to experience. It does not mean you think you are an elitist it is not your fault that gaps exsist.

    Write your own philosophy on life and publish it! (We need better philosophy!) Do that by self publishing (costs around $500 now) through the private market (because Universitys and other publishers will probably balk at something new) and let yourself enjoy life while passing out your book and giving talks on your book. Also you don’t need to join a think tank because you are a think tank. Your high functioning level is a gift and not a guaranteed one since cancer or any number of things could damage it. I’m not trying to be a downer but that is a possibility so be grateful.

    Oh, I think I know part of the problem! Just now I thought of something. Could it be that you are feeling discouraged since you are trying to solve an indefinable or intangible problem? People are not equal in everything and its okay! Problem is many people can’t accept this so they drag other people down. Well not every one of us is envious of others (maybe at certain emotional times of course) and are happy that you and others are so smart. I am an extreme individualist and feel that the one strength I have is to be objective (I work on it constantly). I want to thank you for being you! Our country depends on people like you to be secure. It chokes me up a little because I am able to appreciate this (yes I have read Ayn Rand).

    You can’t ever truefully really fully solve an existential problem without knowing first what is beyond the universe and if the universe is the end what is it expanding into. This is necessary information. Let yourself off the hook (Clark Kent had troubles too you know). Society isn’t going to ever change.

    If you really are a good person than your letting go and following your highest desires won’t hurt anyone (I mean as it is commonly understood to mean. For example eating chocolate supports child slave labor. Using or just living in the U.S.A as you know is dependent on third world countries and other countries in our geo economic system.) We as humans are not totally moral (that’s a myth) and in order to take part in life we need to survive! Everything that we do or don’t do takes up resources that someone else desperately needs. You are not God (or Superman) and aren’t responsable for the rest of humanity. You need certain basic necessities for life or else you will die or end up living in a primitive mental or pysical environment. So go out and take on Goliath since I sence you may be a wee bit bored. no one’s is stopping you from tackling what ever it is you desire most. We don’t live forever and being an idealist is human but as all living things that have needs and where there is scarcity (everywhere except maybe the expansion of the universe) there will exist obscene shortages. I bet you could write some very interesting books.

    Hey the hard part in life is the pursuit of happiness since no matter whom you are it’s so damn elusive. And we all crave fulfillment. I end this message by summing up that there are people who accept life to the best of there ability the way it is and don’t look down on others for there lack of intelligence or that they may have large deficits of intelligence with another. But people like this do judge character and character is usually something that can be measured fairly quickly (of course everyone has there limits and sore spots). I would rather have coffee with some who has good character nice and values there life that is profoundly retarded, brain damaged in an accident or someone with good character that could if they wanted to take advantage of me and would notice immediately a large gap in IQ between us. The world has so many scared people who back stab and play these social (I think it’s antisocial) crazed social status and social capital competitive games.

    I learned a long time ago (and continue to relearn over and over again) no one has a gun to my head and no one is forcing me to play along. Life will never totally be fulfilling but “the pursuit of happiness” doesn’t equate to the pursuit of total fulfillment.

    I’m glad you shared your thoughts so honestly and you did it in a respectfull and appropriate way. And many less smarter people than you (and the ones who are smarter I imagine) find the community and world and its players daunting and at times unbearably agonizing.

    I just thought of one more thing. I have extremely bad clinical Depression (I won’t go into details). You may (or may not) be capable of creating a future patented and Government approved gene therapy or other treatments that would solve this actual problem. If you did something like that you would have millions of people who now take medication (Even people doing well on medication still suffer) life long devoted friends and believe me they wouldn’t care how much smarter than them you are. They wouldn’t give a damn! Of course there are always the exception that proves the rule but hardly significant. Now you may have no talent in neurobiology but than again you also may. Having persistent awful mental illnesses is like being imprisoned in sluggish faltering struggling brain. Thanks for reading this and good luck on your journey!

  28. mike Says:

    having more intelligence than anybody i’ve ever met sucks ass, i would kill to meet somebody with half my intelligence

  29. mike Says:

    and i dont think iq tests work on super intelligent people because i scored like 99 and i’m actually more intelligent than anybody i’ve ever met (possibly the most intelligent person in the world). I think there might be people close or equal to my intelligence but theres probably only like 3 of us in the world so it’s hard to find each other to have a conversation and bitch about how much it sucks to be so fucking intelligent

    • James Says:

      I haven’t tried an IQ test but I’ll say something. Something designed by someone who thinks less than you will have a huge probability of being less efficient… Be it society,linguistics or anything that is thought of or pondered about. About the last part being 3 people in the world I disagree but anyways. There should be much more but not more than 100000 people on earth. Your community is small compared to hmm the human’s population’s mass. So your actually bound to find someone of your level on the internet or if you’re lucky enough someone like you in your life. Try searching in the 3 generations of your current familiy. I was extremely lucky* my dad had the intellect that you speak of. I hadn’t seen him for years since he divorced my mother at an early age and he was living in another country. I went there and spent a whole month or two discussing anything and everything.

  30. mike Says:

    Also heres a philosophical question for you:

    Are we really “geniuses” or are we just “more” intelligent than lesser intelligent people, but in reality we are idiots compared to future generations of smarter humans or computers.

    The reason i think about this is because I’m constantly tearing my hair out when i hear normal people come up with their idiotic opinions. And i have always been able to figure stuff out that would shoot past most peoples heads so fast they would see me as being profoundly mentally retarded.

    So basically what I’m saying is that were are probably very stupid people relative to higher intelligence, but we are just a lot less dumb than normal people.

    Which kind of scares me because i see myself as ALL KNOWING and godlike but in reality i’m probably a moron too.

    • James Says:

      k I can clarify that for you. Your a genius yes in society’s term and compared to society which is the mass or the rest of the people excluding geniuses. To genius level people you might be normal or dumb or even non-existant like normal people are to geniuses. Your a normal type of genius which is a genius in the term of the words. The part of you being all knowing is only all knowing about your surroundings which is society, people and lesser concepts thought up by society. I hope that answered the above if not then sorry.

  31. mike Says:

    I hate being smart so bad i sometimes want to choke myself and smoke lots of weed to try to kill some brain cells and make my self dumber

    oh how i long to be stupid LOL

    There is a great section in wikipedia on genius’ that says that anyone with an iq 30 points higher than other people will be intellectually ostracized by their peers.


    Heres a great IQ test:

    Does a iq test that asks trivia questions like math and spelling have anything to do with intelligence?

    If you answered yes your iq is above average or below. If you answered no it is higher than above average.

    But most people think being good at high level math or science make someone a genius. NO!

    That is knowledge. Even someone with a 100 IQ could learn the most advanced math. In fact in some cases being dumb could be an advantage to learning math (because they wouldn’t get bored and would focus more).

    just some more thoughts from me

    • James Says:

      Great thoughts. Your indeed right all the way lol. By the way how old are you.. I’m 17 and i tried weed but then refrained from keeping such an act because if you control your emotions you shouldn’t get frustrated with such trivial things as hmm society people not understanding you ect meaning you shouldn’t reduce yourself at their level of thinking. For example, let’s say they think about IQ tests or sports. You will think about it and have much brighter conclusions than them on the subject but it was a subject meant to hmm lets see a subject meant to give them a challenge of intellect at their level. Even if it’s not challenging IT IS MADE FOR THEIR MENTAL LEVEL. Not trying to be arrogant by using caps it’s just because that is the main idea of this paragraph. About the IQ part yes it’s only based on knowledge or mostly on it which shows that this test was made by and for society… and not geniuses. Either to try to describe the best they can what geniuses are or to try to discover something on their own. They would be the people of society since geniuses level people won’t waste time on a subject meant for society they will pursue what they want to do be it ambitions dreams challenges and so on.

  32. mike Says:

    i also suffer from autism (aspergers) and OCD and a lot of other shit so it’s giant mix of suckage

    • K Says:

      I, though extremly terribly young(I am younger than fourteen), understand these thought processes with some effort. These differentiated ideas make my mind feel, without a doubt, thoroughly stimulated. I loathe being unchallenged as well, and I feel that I have been grasping too much at the “social” aspect of life. I fear I have almost stopped using my brain and tried to become a mindless zombie; a person who hates to acquire knowledge and sits like an idiot, waiting to get out of the harder learning. This is ridiculous! People nowadays are being complete fools. Though this is the “Age of Information,” people are becoming more and more dependant on others’ achievements to fulfil their wants and needs. No one needs to use their brains anymore! What a waste of time and money to put these people in schooling.

      Though I have never been tested for IQ, I think that people shouldn’t try to measure a persons “intellegence.” Not every aspect will be tested! If you are good in an area, say football, you wouldn’t wanted to be tested on your swimming if you had only become mildly acceptable.

      To mike, I have a brother who has aspergers, and I somewhat understand his point of view. It’s never been fair to call these highly intellegent people socially challenged, because of the delayed learning of the “social” part of life (I personally think that social just means to have compatability with other zombies). Heck, they say the brain isn’t functioning. My theory is that everyone has a misfunctioning aspect of their brain (right now they say only 1 of 4 people do) and that scientists need to look a little closer at the brain! No “healthy” brain is going to be perfect, so why put the label on it? Is there, in “reality,” a normal brain out there? Each one is different, and nothing will change the fact that SCIENCE, NO MATTER HOW REVERED, IS NEVER GOING TO BE COMPLETELY ACCURATE. Sorry to rant on about this, and it is guarenteed someone is going to take this the wrong way. I am not trying to “diss” scientists, I am only trying to present my theory. If you find it acceptable to try to find a conversation with a “child”(another way to make someone feel inferior), email me at

  33. Isti Says:

    Thank you! you gave me some hope, that some day I could find a friend, who can help me develop my thinking…
    as I read your “story”, I realized that when I spend too much time with my friends I begin to think differently, to rationalize in smaller steps. I think retardation is contagious…what should I do if society forces me to act as a person with lower intelligence? How can someone speak and act with the speed of his/her intelligence and still have a life?
    From time to time I think of my self as 2 different persons: one who tries to change the world, and the other who just hangs around with friends and talks about things that are completely hollow. Unfortunately the second one takes more and more out of my time. Every time I try to bring those 2 together, a fight appears. In fact, I don’t try it anymore, because it takes more time for me to formulate the steps: how can you arrive from A to B, as to “see” it for my self, in many cases I even failed..and than I am considered a dumbass who can’t even explain his self, and that pisses me really off.

    I agree with your thought, that smart seeming people aren’t necessarily I experienced failure every time I tried to find a challenging mind in those who had the highest grades in school.
    About colleges and universities..I see them as killers..killers of creativity and builders of barriers. Don’t get me wrong, I am a student to(aerospace engineering), but I think twice before I attend a course or not, if it seems like it gives more answers than questions, I won’t go. And when I try to explain this simple thing to somebody, it doesn’t catch any ears:(

    pfhu..look, I just wanted to write a few words, and where did I and up to:))

    So the point is that the life of a genius is a combination of schizophrenia, deep loneliness and anger:))… (sorry for the grammatical errors, my english is self thought)

    • James Says:

      Lol because I dont want to seem too serious lol. Yes yes and yes what you said and what mostly everyone on this blog/forum says is entirely true. I would like some feedback from you (since you can think at that level) about how to help me in social life. I have a great social life from the point of view of the normal people but it’s just me being hypocrit since I change my personality to the likings of normal people.

  34. Ozzie Says:

    I will only post from experience. I love this blog b/c I feel similarly. I am not “super-intelligent” by any means, but I do feel like I’m in a sea of stupidity.

    I see people’s actions for what they are and am amazed at the influence of these completely transparent actions. I’ve jumped from job to job over the past 5 years (after I dropped out of college). Nobody can sustain real conversations with me b/c it seems they all lack the constructive pieces of basic knowledge.

    I’ve been dissatisfied with people’s understanding for years now. I am not smart, but I have standards that I expect the people I work with to meet…..most of all, I expect the people I work for to surpass.

    I’m a dummy that seeks TRUE enlightenment. Not religious, but intellectual. Nobody has been my match yet, it sucks! I do not try to be this, but everyone bores me.

    Few understand how hard it is to be deprived of people, but that is what it feels like to have friends that are incapable of understanding the simplest things.

    I don’t have measurement of intelligence to bolster my words, but I know I have been let down in every aspect of my being for years, by people that can only measure up to the simplest of thoughts that I have.

  35. Smoky Says:

    This post is quite amusing. Assuming you are smarter than a person you are attempting to communicate with is the epitome of stupidity.

    • Morley Says:

      NO Way Smoke y that is just a blind cut and dry absolute statement…. I Believe these ppl because I know exactly what they mean. I try so much to get somewhere with ppl I give all my friends countless chances and kid myself that somebody cud really know what their talking about… I try really hard and I think Im a fool to believe and give someone the benifit of the doubght only to realize there talkin out their ASS.. It seems that nowadays with how SOCIETY rewards ppl, most ppl care not to genuinly understand something and honestly go about life, but instead rather pretend only so they LOOK good… dont u see that in this society no one wants to improve themselves they just want to FAKE IT TILL THEY MAKE IT. which is the biggest insult to urself

    • James Says:

      Ok let’s stop a bit to answer your statement. Humans socialize with other humans due to the fact it is instinctive. Even a person as smart as the one above/Ozzie will have some rough time feeling in a weird/hostile/lesser environment and not be able to communicate with other people. The need to talk to other people bluntly and with pure honesty is a thing that is granted to people with the same level of intellect/smartness. In other words it is granted easily to people in society who are of the same intellect or really close but for geniuses, as I will say since it is the word society has chosen to describe us, for geniuses there’s a person like each 1 million person at most. If you don’t get that don’t post anymore since it would be a waste of my time purely and simply and you being a person of your level… won’t be wasting your time since in theory most of your life is a waste of time. Not trying to be hmm let’s say rude I’m just pointing out the facts here and these aren’t scientific facts the kind that are always looked at by normal people but theses are natural facts, common sense or logical facts which cannot be denied or refuted in any ways unlike the scientific ones so to say since there’s always exceptions.

      I’ll say your quite amusing lol because of your ignorance.
      If you can answer that which i assume you can’t then get lost…

  36. Ken Says:

    Smoky, your response is quite interesting. I think you’ve provided a case-in-point for the reaction of the average person to discussion about high intelligence.

    Given the data, I can only rationally expect every millionth or so person to be more intelligent than I am. I don’t know how many people I’ve met, but it’s on the order of thousands, not millions.

    To claim that it’s stupid — which I’ll charitably interpret as “not rational”– to expect people to be of lesser intelligence is clearly incorrect.

    For an average person, who is just as likely to meet someone more intelligent as less, it makes sense. It makes for a great sound bite though, doesn’t it?

  37. Smoky Says:

    Ken, your argument is sound assuming you have a clear understanding of the concept of intelligence. How do come to the conclusion that you are more intelligent than the person you are talking to? Do you compare iq test results? Do you use arcane words from your immense vocabulary? How do you conclude that the person you are talking to doesn’t understand what you are attempting to convey? I absolutely understand where you are coming from. I run into this issue all the time but I never would presume I can judge a person’s overall intelligence from a brief conversation. I have a feeling you would be very east to defeat in chess, a classic example of overestimating oneself or underestimating your opponent. It is a critical flaw in your thinking process…..and yes I do equate that with stupidity.

    • Morley Says:

      nah man its not at all like that man… its a love for life and when u have a passion for truth then ull be engaged, receptive, and understanding that u know exectly where the persons coming from. And u can gage there intelligent not based on one sentence but the pattern, its all about the pattern man or wave they give off. and not in a mystical way. I just mean a series of messages he portrays and which direction thats headed and u can tell where ther headed and what theyll even say next… the pattern of the series of messages can be translated to a frequency or wave.

      I just came up with that right now trying to recall how i understand things…

      Its not judging its just understanding. Its not judging by there vocab, that way ur not listening or trying to understand. I have horrible vocab but i can always read a person very well if i am in the mode to do it which i usaully am…

      Its not any different from checking out a broken fridge or something or taking apart an iphone and UNDERSTANDING it..

      And my friend genius is a way u use ur brain its not the info but how the process ur brain does thats different.. most ppl dont even have a process they just take and recall from diferent past experience and forms an educated guess right? just like how u would take outside knowledge (iq score) to judge a persons iteligence in a convo.. so right there u suggest that its just gathering and collecting what u learn.. but its that u can only understand something at that moment only using the things that are there, not trying to find the things in ur brain bank that will fit that situation.

      That has to make sense.. i think. My prob is i dont practice anything so it might sound unprofessional and sloppy when i do stuff or explain(i just explained it based on what i saw u wrote now). but its easier that way and gives me less of a headache than trying to recall info i learned in the past bc i already got the impression that thats what u have to do in life from schoool so i tried it and it doesnt work and i learned that in like 2nd grade. u can only tend to a problem now with NOW. But really i think it takes more brain power to remember and keep track of what u know and use it in appropriate situations so maybe u and other ppl are smarter than me in that way.

    • James Says:

      Let’s see lol. The thing is IQ and other concepts adopted by society are liable to biases. How I judge if I’m smarter or not than the person beside or in front of me I’ll tell you. First if I can easily predict what their next speech will be, if i can predict how and when they will think this this and that over the period of 5mins to 1 hour then I consider me being smarter. The second one is for people who think they are smart since they have a bit of what would be called smartness but aren’t. It is if you can see outside of society. If you can then i consider you being at most capable of following me if not then you aren’t worth my time meaning i won’t spend time thinking with you. While you “converse” with me ill have all the discussion in my head to answer you so you don’t feel insulted and i’ll be thinking about something else. So then let us see yet again, you are classified as someone being somewhat smart ACCORDING TO SOCIAL STANDARDS but in fact are merely an incapacitated person to me or the people in this blog. I’m not insulting if that’s what you think only showing what is right in front of you but that which you cannot see due to your lack of horizons. Your earlier response just proved our theory of people not being able to understand anything. Thanks a lot for being part of the data.


  38. A. Ali Says:

    I understand your loneliness completely. The glazed eyes as you try to explain something. But perhaps you may be surprised to learn that average people assume that you are the one that is “stupid” or “out there”…. That is the ironic point. However, an intelligent person should realize that intelligence levels can not be measured completely from a simple IQ test. The questions only scratch the surface of the complexity that is the human mind. I would suggest rethinking what appears to be a sense of entitlement, that the world owes you something (it was only the tone of your message that implied that, though everyone has bad days). There are so many other human attributes that lead to success and fulfillment that show intelligence but are not included on “IQ” tests…. Emotional intelligence, bravery, courage, strategy and what about the brain in the heart, is that quantitatively measurable? I myself, have two close friends, diagnosed with genius, but again we all remain sceptical and curious about what the human mind truly contains.

    I think as Socrates said “Know thyself” and knowing thyself a true genius would know that we do not know…..

  39. freddie Says:

    Ken, I found your blog while researching the same issue. Now before I start let me add that most of the IQ tests I’ve done put me in the high 120’s. That means you’re more intelligent than me, and yet, somehow, there’s this relatedness issue. At least, that’s what it is for me. Average folk spend their free time socializing “hanging with buds” and kicking, hitting or bouncing balls around, while folks like us, spend our free time researching, researching, researching. The point is, we don’t spend our time relating, agreeing with, or understanding other people. I’m submitting that perhaps, just because of that alone, we are simply out of the practice of “relating” to the human condition, all other issues aside. My own experience of relating to people has mostly been similar to yours, but I do make an effort to listen intently and attempt “plug” the other person’s perspective into my own limited (by definition) view. Sometimes it affords me the opportunity to see the world differently for that moment and sometimes I honestly relate to what it must be like to be them, to see the world through their eyes.

    • .g Says:

      My two cents and lots of rubbish:


      “The person reading those words of wisdom will most likely nod their head in recognition, then put the book down, and go on with their life as usual—continuing to perceive, think, and act in ways completely contrary to the concepts that they just recognized as being true.”

      Plurality mismatch, but anyways… These words above plainly remind me of the intolerable guilt I felt which ultimately led to my conscious decision to let myself crash back to earth during my sophomore year in college. I call that period “my first enlightenment” in hopes that someday I will choose to revisit that clarity.

      I’ve always thought relentlessly, explicated obsessively. I knew more about reality at 6 years old than most college-educated adults I know today. In my sophomore year of college, perhaps as a result of multiple weeks of endless thinking, studying, and lack of sleep, I stumbled upon a very distinct clarity. This clarity was not the logical clarity that I’d grown accustomed to over the course of my life. This was an emotional clarity, as if I’d finally been born from logic into a realm of value. Everything was good. All was good, because it was as it was, and all was noticeably easier for me than before, because there was no anxiety or preoccupation of my mind. There was only clarity and focus. For months.

      This is when I first became aware of the difference between knowing and understanding something versus accepting and feeling something. This was their marriage. I let myself feel the truth. The less capable, those that need boxes more than the rest of us, including doctors (still a high percentage of useless minds), like to diagnose so that they have something they can wrap their little minds around. They would likely have diagnosed me as manic, and their potential to understand be saved would have been gone. And now I sound like I think I’m Jesus Christ, the world’s savior. I felt very strongly that my “gift” was my ability to understand that everything was good and that all could be clear and all things could be enjoyed. Within two months I was taken by an overwhelming sense of love and duty tof the world, as though they were my children and I, their mother. I sought out all of my closest and brightest friends and family and struggled to explain to them what I was experiencing and how good it was and how they too could find what I had. And now I sound like an evangelist. But I failed miserably. The brightest minds may have understood the things I was explaining and could sense the emotions I was feeling, but there was no prayer they’d ever obtain what I had. I tried desperately to open their minds, but failed repeatedly. One may teach and educate a mind, but I have struggled to open and enlighten a mind. Guilt overwhelmed me and after 2 months I made the conscious decision to rejoin the world of the simple-minded educated elite and all else around me. Since then I’ve continued to live my life, constantly struggling to keep myself blinded from truths, safe from the absolute aloneness of genius, constantly struggling to motivate myself towards some fabricated goal.

      LG, I too am blessed with a significant other with a brilliant mind, and I believe potential for enlightenment, though hers has been horribly repressed by her environment. I would support her 100% and tell her to let it free, but I can’t convince myself that it’s the best thing for anyone anymore. Genius and existential understanding leaves one with all the answers but never with reason. In the bizarre case of my sophomore year, if the allowance, the release, doesn’t overtake you entirely or at least evenly, the emotional being may become overwhelmed.

      “A young genius, no matter how brilliant, is severely handicapped in his or her attempt to acquire wisdom through pure book-learning. (3) Books and technical manuals aren’t Life, and you can’t cram Life. Even the most brilliant and studious cartiographer is clueless about geography until he hops on a boat and sails around the world for a few years.”

      A. Carrozza, this is incorrect (unless you’re pushing the absolute pure experience part, which in your argument is useless). You CAN cram life. I’ve been doing it my entire life. I can’t stop it. I’ve reached the point where I’ve experienced so much of life and have such an ability to perceive potential realities that I’m literally bored 99% of my life, because I can already feel things before they happen. I am more conscious than everyone I know. Throughout my life I have repeatedly been aware of realities through rapid consideration of potential realities that you would say are lives I need to have actually endured to experience, and often I’ve known which potentials will be accurate. I have known many things before they happen. I’ve known millions of words before they’ve been said. I’ve known answers without being capable of formulating an explanation. I’ve had “feelings” – the type of stuff I’ve written off all my life as “illogical bullshit.” I’ve even experienced such rapid consciousness that physical acts such as a falling spoon appears to play out 4x too slowly. I’ve debated with myself about whether I should reach out an arm and catch a falling bowl as it was falling no more than 3 feet, as though it took 5 full seconds to occur. Loud unexpected noises don’t flinch a hair on my body. These are all silly examples and a struggle in words to purvey the fact that I am extremely conscious and feel as though I’m always a moment ahead of the world.

      “There’s a scene in the film Good Will Hunting in which Robin Williams tells Matt Damon that, having never physically visited the Sistine Chapel, his book-learned grasp of the reality of that place is one-dimensional and purely theoretical. He has no idea what it looks like, what it smells like, what one feels standing under Michelangelo’s handiwork. That’s exactly the point that I’m making here.”

      That idea is also incorrect (again, unless you just counter with “yeah but you didn’t taste the blood dripping down your face as you lay on the floor in a daze after slipping on holy water that day when you actually went to visit the Sistine chapel”). One may simply piece together all the other understandings one already has in order to reproduce an experience that is highly similar. I’m at the point where the buzz I get walking into the Sistine Chapel doesn’t move me because I’ve already felt it and I’m fast approaching the extent of flying over the Grand Canyon after going back in time to catch Mesa Verde live and in action without feeling much of anything, because I’ve already felt 99.999% of it before it happens simply by thinking it.

      “The vast majority of accumulated knowledge is mis-information.” I agree.

      You speak a lot of books. What in the world do books and learning have to do with genius? Genius requires no form-fed stimulation. The growth of genius happens simply as one lives. Formal education is unrelated to genius.

      “My own personal belief is that most people aren’t smart enough, or wise enough, to act lovingly or generously as a result of intellectual insight into the true nature of reality.” You, mystic, must have missed the boat in regards to the “true nature of reality.” There is no calling for love or generosity in the true nature of reality. Though, there is also certainly no call to arms or hatred either.

      Phraseology should not be a word.

      Feelings shared:
      Sylex, well put: “It will often very rapidly spider web out of control as up to a dozen layers of base knowledge need to be explained just to explain the original concept.” In my excitement about a new concept for exploration, I will begin building a foundation in their minds with which to communicate about the topic I am excited about but will give up halfway through in realizing the absurd amount of time and effort that would be required to bridge the gap. And yes: “I tend to use analogies almost every time I talk to anyone.” Dah! “While I can excel socially, it’s always through a “social mask”, playing a role, hiding the true me.” This thread makes me so deeply happy. Aloneness is fascinating. I’ve spent some time, but I still don’t fully grasp aloneness. “How you will so often say something to someone and be shocked when they perform some absurd act, because in your mind the logical implications of your words were dozens of steps ahead of the conclusion they reached.” “Really life has been very frustrating when even the average “genius” seems mentally retarded.” “Is there anyway to contact you by e-mail?” Is there any way to gather together under one roof? Is there any way to finally be found, to relax, and perhaps to humor our own obsessions with consideration and understating, to explicate until the cows come home?

      Eric Nehrlich, cheers! MIT are good people.

      Ben Richardson, “It doesn’t do much for the loneliness, but it does validate it.” Fascinating. I have never felt a need for validation in this case, but I certainly feel less alone. Or perhaps the loneliness has been temporarily masked by hope.

      Ken, living above that threshold is neither necessary for enabling the happiness of others nor necessary for sustainability of anything. While I don’t agree with your concept, I like your demonstration.

      lol @ Astroman. Your rocks are worse than books and have nothing to do with genius, but your question is funny. Thanks!

      sylvester, cool. Good luck with that stuff.

      Pete A Jarnstrom, you’re awesome. Great heart. I’m not gonna dig into your poetry, but if I did, I’d start with “good person” though you disprove it yourself in your next sentence. “no one’s is stopping you from tackling what ever it is you desire most.” My genius has left me desireless, please help. Or perhaps I should be using my genius for emotional desires or primal instincts, but of course, that would make me a “bad person.” … Dah, stopping, like I said, I’m not gonna dig, at least, anymore. Great heart.

      lol @ mike.
      lol @ mike.
      lol @ mike. “idiotic opinions” all are.
      lol @ mike. lol @ “anyone with an iq 30 points higher than other people will be intellectually ostracized by their peers.’ That sentence makes no sense.

      Isti, “I think retardation is contagious.” Absolutely! Although, I fear that simply having friends diminishes intelligence. Having friends creates social anxieties and otherwise wasted time.

      Smoky, interesting.
      And again, lmao @ Smoky. Cheers, though perhaps you’re just a Chihuahua trained to bite the ankles supporting minds you’ve no business amongst.

      freddie, cheers!

      Ken, thanks for the post! Two years have passed and now you’ve the lonely geniuses who resort to tearing apart your words as opposed to riding the concepts. Cheers to you and I’ll be back.

      Wow. What a magnificent thread.


      Have at me wolves! ❤

      • .g Says:

        Of course, my blogging ignorance shines brightly through any possibility of having mentally simulated this reality. Who clicks the last reply button, honestly? I do. I should have gone to bed 10 hours ago, lol. Goodnight!

        • e Says:

          .g if you pop back, I’d be genuinely interested to have a chat.
          – it all rings true.
          and If for nothing else, than to simply laugh at the absurdity of it all.

      • sam Pianko Says:

        you get it!
        i thought i was the only one who could travel through the dimensions.
        When you say you are relying on your emotions to “believe”
        it’s because you are no longer using the use of symbols in a linear manner. A trait of true abstract intelligence. (:
        i would love to discuss the nature of infinity with you sometime.
        drop me a line!

      • James Says:

        I am wolf ??!!! Lol joking anyways that put aside everything you said is true and i like everything from each word you wrote in the above to every pause you surely took by writing this or thinking that xD. Just don’t be too rash to mike except for the fact he uses IQ as a reference the rest is somewhat right. I always talk to people at their level makes it easier— So with you I’ll have to raise the bar a little since your a higher let’s say “genius”. I mostly categorize people of the genius level as lower and higher genius. I like how you got that feeling which I already had the one that last 3 months or so. About the rest yes i can experience things as if I’ve been there so nothing amazes me… Kinda removes most of lifes excitements I say so the rest of the exciting moments comes either from really strong sensations that can partly be described but not 100% due to the lack of judgement due to the sensation and the rest comes from mental excitment such as having a conversation with someone who understands you 100% and more.

        That said,


        Not a wolf

  40. highoctane Says:

    Well, I guess I got here because this the place where I mustn’t feel ashamed for being afflicted by the lonely genius disorder. What a relief.
    Real geniuses here. Like Carroza who asks “Why then does it often take a lifetime to “master” the principles of zen?” Just reading them isn’t “understanding”.
    Gives the first zen principle “1) All things are interconnected and interdependent, therefore nothing exists independently from anything else.”
    The point is that if you understood that piece of zen wisdom you wouldn’t ask why it takes time to understand something since the passing of time is the process of connecting the interconnected things.

  41. lonelinesssuckls Says:

    Good to know I’m not alone. Now, how do I go about finding a compatible woman?

  42. E. Fermi Says:

    Terrestrial Intelligence has existed for hundreds of millions of years. By now geniuses should have completely taken over the planet. Where are they all? Any ideas?

    • James Says:

      I can answer that if you want… Depending on the personality coupled with let’s say their level of genius* and on the fact that the time period was only 100 years and not more. There’s a lot of let’s say evil or mischevious geniuses that appeared all over history(they didn’t since a real genius would be discrete). They did by any means but they mostly worked from the shadows if i may say so. Never putting themselves as the one who takes the direct actions but as the one who will decide the future actions. Now you can share with other “geniuses” thanks to internet but before you couldn’t.

      About taking over the world let’s say a genius level is this level(it actually is). This level of genius is greatly limited… If you are a genius you won’t be offended by these words it’s only true facts. To be able to control the world you’d need to be more than a genius a word still not described by society due to the fact they(referring to the level beyond genius) mostly or majoritarely prefer to keep anonymous or work in the so called shadows. That level is enough to let’s say take over the world but then let’s say there’s about 70-700 people like this around the world and one has to have the personality wanting to take over the world for x reasons. Now at this point the level isn’t a problem yes? Let’s say 70 out of those 700 people want to take over the world— Don’t you think there will be conflict here if each of these 70 want to take over the world? Meaning it is impossible to take over the world without a person of that level seeing or feeling it. Maybe they will retaliate maybe not. In the end, look at todays society isn’t it an example of world domination as you see it… Yet again in the shadows and since there was many generations of difference between them and other let’s say genius level or beyond you could say they have or had the advantage. I won’t go in deeply in this as it is not in my best interest to do so over the internet but anyways.

      Hope this answered your question and I look forward to your reply.

  43. Ken Says:

    Why would they have? You’re assuming there is strong and unlimited pressure for higher intelligence on reproduction. There certainly isn’t.

  44. nikisha Says:

    to e fermi: a simple study of genetics would have provided you with the answer to that question….stressors do not work on extremes unless there is an overwhelming environmental sudden shift that favors a minority gene set over all the other more frequent gene sequences. as to where are they all, they ae hiding from the idiots like you that provide frustration or if you are old enough (like me) humour of a different variety.
    and to ken, brother, i am with you all the way. my standard dev. is not as much as yours, but i meet all the same problems…love the blog….does your wife have a brother?

    • James Says:

      Lol*. Yeah I see your point about searching for a mate clearly since there isn’t much of this level around the world. And ken about what you said there’s true in that not 100% though.

      Answering to you nikisha about hiding from idiots ect… Let’s take another thing. Society let’s say describes things we look at them as idiots by saying we I’ll be more precise mostly you people of the genius level. While it is indeed true they can be taken as idiots since they are in the sense of the word described by society but yet again wasting time again time* on such people isn’t worth it. Likewise the genius level is simple in it’s own way… Just because most of the society is let’s say in a way less accurate or cognitive than you doesn’t mean there’s no one who will feel the same about you.

      My dad looks at people with a humoristic way the same as you. But, he learned to be humble and that is beyond your level as of yet.. Anyways, I think I have already said too much please excuse my words but they are true.

      • James Says:

        Sorry about the part saying “Society let’s say describes things we look at them as idiots by saying we I’ll be more precise mostly you people of the genius level. ”

        I was in my thoughts.

        Correcting it is Society let’s say describes things we look at like words ect. You look at the rest of society as idiots since you are more accurate or precise on your thoughts. Earlier I said WE meaning mostly people on this level of intellect.

        By the way my dad is 52 years old i think he is a bit older than you just so u get how long or how much time he had to think with a level of his to come to such conclusions as the concept of humbility.

  45. E. Fermi Says:

    Obviously, the propagation of a species isn’t just a matter of reproduction. The species has to survive (and flourish or falter) as well. Rabbits which are twice as sexually productive, but ten times as stupid and slow-moving, may possibly increase in number over time– or they may just provide an easy, ample food source for predators, with little or no long-term growth in population.

    And when one is discussing the evolutionary development of humans, it’s necessary to take into account– not only slow, gradual natural evolution– but also sudden exponential leaps in socio-technological evolution. “Extensional systems”– tools, language, books, governmental systems, science, etc. can lead to sudden, explosive changes in the nature and abiities of the organism itself. (Whereas purely natural genetic evolution is a very slow, gradual process, with sudden or violent changes occurring (as you point out) in the environment, not in the species itself.)

    So the (quite rapid, in geological/evolutionary terms) development of human language, tools, government, and technology are akin to a particular species suddenly sprouting wings, growing sharp claws, and teeth, increasing ten times in size, and attaining the ability to see in the dark, breath under water, and shoot laser beams from its eyes– virtually overnight.

    The thing is, as far as genius is concerned, it’s all about the numbers. If one-half or one-third of newborn humans had an IQ of 190 or above, geniuses would rule. They would define the nature of society, just as people with IQs of 80-120 pretty much define the nature and standards of current human society. In such a society, anyone with an IQ under 130 would be institutionalized, unable to function normally. In actuality, however, geniuses are so tremendously outnumbered that they have absolutely no chance of “taking over.”

    Instead, they’re USED by the masses, as an ant colony might USE it’s most skillful soldiers “mandables,” or it’s strongest workers’ “muscles,” to further its collective needs. Individuals with exceptional intellects are “milked” by the average, generic workers and (if the fruits of their brilliant minds seem to serve the needs of the masses) their ideas are given the raw materials and mass effort necessary for them to manifest in the colony. So, instead of Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein becoming kings or rich powerful world leaders, they’re given a nice stipend and a comfortable place to keep themselves busy, and the fruits of their minds are harvested, packed, and mass-marketed.

    Humans rule the planet Earth only because the average human is somewhat smarter than a rabbit or a woodchuck– somewhat. It’s the average that matters, because in numbers comes power. In numbers comes power, and in great numbers comes great power. The only reason Bruce Lee could defeat 20 or 30 opponents in a single movie is that they always attacked him one or two at a time. If 10 clueless, clumsy whitebelts were to jump on him simultaneously, he wouldn’t stand a chance. Now change these odds to 1:500. It’s obvious that the geniuses don’t stand a chance.

    Maybe that’s why the SETI program has failed to produce anything so far. Just as the average person can’t figure out how to program a VCR, no less build one, no less design one, no less invent one out of thin air– maybe the average ET can’t figure out how to program an interstellar beacon. That would explain a lot of things, wouldn’t it?

    • James Says:

      To your post e.fermi about humans ruling the planet and the facts you pointed it out that is true. Two things didn’t sit well for me, first the reference to IQ yet again no need to explain why and second the statement quantity beats quality. If you look at it from the simple point of view or basic point yes. Go further human level quantity still beats quality because smart people cannot cope with a lot of stupid people at once or normal people. Now I first have to define the difference between human intelligence/life evolution and animal evolution.

      Animal evolution is linear simple ect. They will gather information in a mechanical way and slow comparing it to humans.

      Now for humans, it’s exponential. They have consciousness which proves a great asset to take advantage of that information animals wouldn’t. Now let us see the difference between a smart or normal person and a genius on the life evolution facet of the idea. Let’s say people have 100 neurons and a genius has 101 neurons. Let’s take it like this each information is worth 100 points and information can link itself between one another (you need at least 2 bits of information to make a link). Each time an information passes through the brain/mind let’s say every neuron catches it. A normal person will gather 100 points on the first ever information they ever get and a genius 101. Now extrapolate that to the normal life where theres billions of information arriving and passing our mind/brain and we have not just 1 but a big number of neurons let’s say more than the average person. Now with this you can compare this level of evolution to multiplication. Then add the link factor meaning each neuron and bit of information makes a link with each other you get the exponential factor of human mind… So taking this concept in facts(it may be untrue if it is i look forward to anything added from people who have something important to say thank you in advance) a small gap on the genetic level of people will make the huge gap in reality.

      Talking about a new specie is not too far fetched as it is partly true since there’s a small difference on the genetic level but it is a long way before a new specie which the humans would be the descendant of appears on this planet.

      If my reply didn’t clarify anything which I hope it did please explain why.

      Tahnk you,

      • James Says:

        Oh lol… Yes about quantity beats quality so according to what I said in my earlier reply on the human level or on the mind level quantity definitly doesn’t beat out quality. An example would be a quantity defining a concept/mechanism to rule over/control quantity such as society these days. Society is brightly defined if it was defined by a higher genius, if not it was a mere accomodation made by normal people to their needs. Why is it well designed/defined because it’s more than 2 birds with 1 stone. First it controls the mass second it removes the probable adversity or future competition, which is someone of the genius level or above. The third point would be full/total control for the person or group of person that defined this system.

  46. Ken Says:

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at Fermi, but I will say that technological change only has a second order effect on us insofar as certain technologies favor reproduction among a slightly different subset of people (e.g. a nerd can now become rich instead of just being eaten by a lion).

  47. Morley Says:

    Yea man… I actually typed my problem into google hoping theyll be someone saying : “Yes! come here we need you as much as u need us!” but this is good enough and makes me feel better just to know that i shudn’t quit my tendencies of deep thought and understanding.

    I completely relate to carrozza and LG… I do not have a strong acedemic background, always did poor in school even the it was a breeze, i just goofed off and ddint try. More notivibly in 7th/8th grade I have been able to understand and pick up skills and processes very fast. Like the first day and start getting into it. And relating to problems ppl had who have been in the subject for a while.

    Although I did have much fun diving into these things, mostly from the freshness of new things and for bragging, at the end of HighSchool it got boring and seemed empty and purposeless bc i really wasnt motivated to take anything all the way. I pretty much just liked the attention and liked showing off.

    After highschool lived on my own cross country, to college in utah so i cud snowboard on the side… but realized college didnt want smart ppl, they only wanted ppl to follow directions… so i quit very soon after being so pissed off at my teachers…

    I cant fit in anywhere and everywhere i go i just see short tempered monkeys…
    I started smoking lots of weed to bring that gap down so i cud fit in with the idiots.. Even though weed always made me freak out id still do it in desperation to fit in, i did it for years now and finally learned to enjoy it and can live like the rest and apreciate mediocrity. but now im depressed and dont know what to do.. So MIKE I recomend not taking that route…

    Now Im 20 and still a master at anything i try, first try alot of times. Unfortunately i am so stuck that i can only demonstrate my masterfullness wwhen a situation arrises on the fly.. i like to act quick and skillful just show off, showing my peers that i dont have to practice or prepare for anything to be good at it and act gracefully. BUT I cannot plan for anything and make any real progress because im depressed and am afraid that if i get into 1 field ill be missing out on everything else…. I have an extreme need to do everything but I am stuck and cannot initiate anything.. I still got my mind but i just cant decide what to do.. I will stop smoking and maybe time will heal my depression.

    • James Says:

      Ok. I’m 17 same stuff except i didn’t give in to the temptation of smoking weed except for once that is… K so you can’t decide on what you want to do in your future as a profession or just as a hobby. You are good at everything be it sports study and so on it’s better if we clarify it. Then since you’re good in every aspect of life seen by society you feel like you don’t wanna miss a thing.

      Now that we have clarified your position in life let’s keep going. First, you’ll have to go to university even if you have to endure through college… There you will find what? Not people to share with and ect but you will find information to broaden your understanding of many things but in a way you will have filled some of the void in your heart if i may say so. Afterwards let’s say you’ve got only 1/3 of your life filled with what you will or might enjoy the rest is a social entourage such as people you might find here and the last third will be about trying to get the concept of being humble lol. Might seem corny or weird coming from a young fella like me but showing off ect I had that period in my life but then it leaves you with emptiness since the people you are showing off to are lacking in many ways… By being humble which is vague as I say it in this text since it’s a broad concept and complex. So by being humble you will reduce stress or “unjustified” depression. It is justified but your doing that to yourself if you get what i mean. So being humble will permit you to close that last gap.

      I’ll let you do the thinking and research about the concept of being humble because along the way you might actually discover yourself and it might be fun too.


  48. Anonymous Says:

    The lonely Genius ? Hmmm… Let me see… Yep, that sound strange to me.
    Genius is never lonely. He has a great mind to keep him entertained. The greatest gift !
    Solitude is a peaceful sanctuary where thought can go uninterrupted.
    Loneliness is the boredom that is experienced by weak minded people who are attached to the company of others. Because they haven’t learned to channel their mental energies and found a purpose to direct their gift.

    You shouldn’t really consider yourself a Genius yet if you haven’t learned to overwrite your crippling emotions. And what is loneliness but an emotion, an animal instinct.
    Genius instinct is to go beyond anything with his mind. IQ scores only show potential. But Superman cultivates his nature.

    • James Says:

      Lol. Good job on mastering your emotions you’ve gone a long way anonymous. Yes you are right about the part of mastering the emotions but not about the fact of making them void you’ll understand that later on if you do not become closed minded or lessen your horizons. I prefer not to remove from you the path to the gift of going beyond what you have already reached. You’ve received a free gift which is your genius the rest is for you to achieve or else life would be too easy yeah?

      Well anyways, I’m not trying to be cocky/arrogant just saying the facts and if you are at that level I fear not you will understand and seek the part you’re missing.

  49. Anonymous Says:

    I must admit that when I was younger, solitude was a bitter sweet experience. More often on the bitter side. But since I have had my self realization and embraced my nature, it has become a blessing. I wouldn’t have it any other way…

  50. LG: I just came upon the blog while looking for Grady Towers’ poignant article on Outsiders. I admire you for sharing your thoughts here in this open manner. I probably look at many of these things differently than you do, but I think this is a very worthwhile kind of dialog and I don’t see many people doing it so honestly. Thanks for starting this conversation here.

    • Ken Says:

      You’re welcome. It’s pretty old, and getting older, but I think it’s still relevant to many people. I’ve learned that honesty and sincerity can get you pretty far.

      • James Says:

        Interesting. Honesty and sincerity are far more accute for people who are considered geniuses* because they want to be honest and show people around them what they have been missing all along: sometimes too honest for normal people lol.

        But ya thank you Ken and could I know how old are you if it isn’t too personal since i like comparing many things like how far you’ve come with how many years of your thinking pattern ect and so on. I’m 17 as you might know if you’ve read some of my posts.

        Last thing I’d like to add is if you want anything from anyone you first have to offer what you have.

  51. torontophd Says:

    hi there,

    thought this thread was very interesting. I can totally empathize with you. it is very difficult at times and life generally requires endless amounts of patience. a big part of it is keeping a positive outlook, which I know can be a constant challange. i’ve often found myself vacillating in and out of misanthropy. however, the upside has always been cherishing the small yet inspiring moments in day to day life. balance is the key!

    i’ve recently found the following book quite interesting. it’s called “the closing of the American mind” by Bloom. I recommend you check it out.

  52. Spencer Maxwell Says:

    Hi all,

    I am wondering if anyone has found any suitable online communities to indulge in?

    In the meantime while trying to find like minded people, what publications do you read regularly? What blogs?


  53. Sindre Says:

    I just want to express my gratitude quickly, as I found this a very inspiring read.

    If I can think of something more substantial and helpful to add, I will. But right now, I have to get back to school for my next class.

    Thank you.

  54. 172 Says:

    Cool site.
    I found it while searching the same issue.

    I struggle in vain to communicate with others. This would not be an issue if I was not required to meet with others in the course of my employment. I find myself always defending, without the understanding (and I use this word sarcastically) of those that I work with.

    My work is great in that I am basically a problem solver and get tasked to fix things that others cannot. Good stuff, except for the constant onslaught of insults and the like I must negotiate.

    The word “genius” is applied to me as one such insult.

    I wish I could respond and complain about how impossible it is to explain my concepts to those who as far as I can tell will never understand. Instead I am stymied and cannot return the insults.

    The only fun I have is when the final product is launched and everyone is in awe.

    Thanks for the blog.

  55. Julian Says:

    I wish I found this blog earlier. It seems that you look at yourself as self-righteous! Don’t take it personal, since you are being so honest, I am sure you will appreciate my honesty and directness as well. You are so smart and I understand that you are looking forward to face some challenging questions in you area of interest. But just think about this a little bit:Do you really need to go to college to learn? All college provides is the credentials so we could get a standard job and leave a standard life. Ask yourself if you really need anybody to discuss some challenging subject with them or have a challenging conversation with. With your high IQ, you can just dwell on any challenging question by yourself especially when dealing with something conceptually abstract that people around you wouldn’t grasp. Anyway most of the complex abstract problems when solved just create the opportunity to ask more questions.

    I don’t know if I am making sense to you. But all my life, I have been asking myself why people around me are so dumb and can’t have a basic conversation that involve the use of logic to solve a specific problem.When they tend to lose themselves from the subject and the discussion lose it’s real purpose and they end up with something else without even knowing how they started. And every time I try to engage in a conversation and try to help keeping track of the main subject so everyone could make an input no matter stupid it may be, I always end up being looked at like I am the most stupid in the group or just straight hated by the rest of the group because they just talk to say something instead of talking because they have something to say. I just ended up being tired of discussion anything with anyone, even the most basic things. However I still find quite challenging the problems I have to solve in the area of interest and limitless my opportunities to grow.

    I know what are my limits and try to go beyond them every day. If you really think you are a genius, How about you try to change the world by innovating in the the areas you excel. Don’t just use the tools made for graphic design but make those tools yourself. Just don’t use programming languages to create software but create a programming language yourself, or some developing platform that would blow the mind of the average Joe. Be the one that leads innovation because those are the people that make everything move and the rest just follow. Well, you asked for challenges, here is one I am giving you unless you are already making it happen. But as far as I can say (based on what I read), you are not. That’s why I called you self-righteous at the beginning of my post. Call yourself a genius after you have achieved something really great. Because life is all about achievements otherwise nothing really matters. Anyway, that is what I thing. I could be as lonely as I am and not being able to relate to anyone because we don’t think at the same level, but as long as I work on achieving something and can really see that I am going in the right direction towards that, I can say I am happy (not quite, but relatively close though).
    I visited your blog today because I felt more lonely than usual. I am going through a really major transition in my life and I don’t seem to find anybody that I can really talk to about it. Even you, so smart as you say wouldn’t understand because you are not going through the same thing I am. Even my wife can’t. That is so frustrating. Ignorant are really blessed! That’s why the expression self-conscious carry a pejorative connotation instead of a meliorative one. Average people just don’t want to be aware of themselves and so to think and whenever they do, it’s just too overwhelming for them. Guess what, it’s also overwhelming for me cause I have noone to share my thoughts with. Maybe I should just get drunk like anybody else. It’s exactly 8 AM. I might just go out today to get drunk!!!Haha, just joking!!

    • James Says:


      As for the rest lol… the fact is the concept yet again it is a concept i will talk with concepts referring to everything and nothing. So the concept of doing something great is something only defined by society QUOTE:DEFINED BY SOCIETY. By my caps i just want to focus on certain points not speak loudly or anything since we cannot write in italic here. So a genius… is great before doing something great since the basic concept of self is bound by the process or concept of thinking yes? Taking that into consideration average people NEED to feel greatness even if they aren’t great and so they always say do something great because if you don’t you aren’t great and you’re just like the rest of us.

      Now let’s keep going. From this I do not share my ideas with anyone… except for my father yes since I can trust him even now I will only explain to you what you need to know to evolve in your thinking and nothing more. By not sharing my ideas let’s say I won’t do great things for society but for myself not out of selfishness but because people of their level instituted with that level of knowledge/power won’t see the consequences or the bad scenarios. Whilst, people of your level will see them and that is the reason WHY they can create such things because they understand every aspect of it not only their limited point of view on the subject.

      To end this pathetic paragraph of mine I’ll tell you that I don’t and never will share any of my let’s say “great” ideas with anyone else but myself or people that are trustworthy enough to see every aspect of that discovery/knowledge.

      I do not need to prove my greatness as I already am great…

      Reflect on this statement since it isn’t out of ignorance/arrogance that it was deployed but out of deep advanced though/concept.

      When you understand the above perfectly please post a reply so we can continue the discussion at equal thinking.

      Thank you.
      James looking forward to your reply.

  56. Julian Says:

    PS: Why smart people are unhappy? Google the questoin and you may just find another one who has time like you to blog about it’s self-righteousness, lol. I just never have enough determination to write about how I feel in a blog. I do find it, however, appeasing when I can read other people and know that I am not alone. Kind of selfish right? Feeling good because other people suffer as much as I do? (^_^). Isn’t that what it turns out to be after all?

    • James Says:

      Do not share to much as any thoughts of yours might be used but share just enough as to not give your entire to an intellectually capable person meaning not more than 10-20%.

      Just a friendly warning..

      So as for your reply lol. A good advice from me.


      Sorry for the caps yet again but you know… If you don’t it doesn’t matter.

      So yes if you know or understand yourself in every aspect the depressing thoughts shouldn’t be anymore and you’ll reach your full potential as a GENIUS. I used the caps to point out that yes almost everyone on this blog is about a genius level.

      Hope it helped and looking forward to your reply when you better understand yourself even if it isn’t 100% I say if you begin to start pondering about such concept your on your way to emotional stability.


      friendly advice.

  57. @Julian:

    “Why smart people are unhappy?”

    Not neccessarily true in general, there have been some studies that showed a moderate correlation between high IQ and success, but I do think there is some sort of relationship at some point in the curve(s).

    There do seem to be a lot of very smart AND very unhappy people and relatively few very smart AND very happy people. I think it’s not the pattern we’d expect from variables that were completely independent.

    I’m toying with several ideas:

    1. Part of being smart form a certain perspective depends on being realistic, and reality is depressing. Rose-colored glasses help happiness and can help support creativity under some conditions, but there’s a tradeoff with realism.

    2. There are several famous analyses correlating creativity and mental illness. To the extent that being smart in some sense builds on the same factor that gives rise to this aspect of creativity, genius and pathology may have some legitimate correlation of some sort.

    3. Being *very* smart can be *very* alienating:

    3a. Partly because people with multiple 9’s exceptional intelligence or the equivalent seem to think differently (a suspicion I have, I don’t know how well I could support it at this point).

    3b. Partly because some extreme variants of high intelligence go along with highly speciallized brains. There is some evidence that the incidence of high IQ overlaps somewhat with the incidence of autistic spectrum disorder for example. A (subjectively) disproportionate number of very smart people I’ve worked with also seem to show Asperger-like signs.

    Just speculating on your question, not offering a formal theory or an argument.

    kind regards,


    • James Says:

      Due to your kind regards todd i will answer kind as well.

      Bringing IQ in the matter removes almost 100% of your post’s credibility though i read it all the way as i suspect you have something smart to say.

      The researches done and so on are just data which analysed by the wrong person or group of people will only lead further from the truth…

      Why does let’s see smartness or the concept of a smart person talked about in your post bring more mental diseases. Second the data gathered by simplistic people is worthless… Look at reality and mostly this blog is reality do most of the people here had fulfilling lives as to their social and mental facets of live? No.

      Then genius level smartness coupled with a fairly normal personality won’t be able to cope with the surge of ideas concepts emotions and so on. Meaning they will have a higher probability of crumbling psychologically. I almost had that when I was 6-7 years old due to the tremendous package of dota and reality I had seen.. but due to my stubborness I pulled through as to not exagerrate things I said i was being stuborn.

      Then about the mental diseases and hmm ya smartness as you’ve put it. IT IS TRUE BUT WHY? The correlation was only there but with no further analysis due to the lack of capabilities from the researchers point of view… WHY? Simply because the level of stress and pressure IS TREMENDOUS… Conclusion, stress + pressure are known to affect the human health in every ways.. more prone to diseases and mental illnesses. THEN? put the normal stress and pressure normal people have for a small moment in their lives then add on that pressure and hmm stress and put that TREMENDOUS AMOUNT ON DAILY LIFE OR ALMOST DAILY.

      You get the analysis for your data and your post.

      Hope it was enough to satisfy your curiosity in many ways. I might think you will have more questions if… just if you looked at this objectively and with logic only.

      Answering without remorse lol

  58. cogito Says:

    I understand you comepletely my friend. My test results(though tets are not always a true reflection of the subject) have been off the charts since I was in middle school. My IQ According to the Mensa weed-out exam is 127 and it is 135 according to the stanford-benet. Needless to say, I am at the very least in the 90 percentile rank and i find it difficult to fit into a society where the things my mind works upon are not welcome.

    • James Says:

      Well again IQ tests might prove untrue though I think you might not be of the genius level intellect since I didn’t get to read any of posts since you haven’t posted yet. Until you do I won’t look at you with much interest but your an enjoyable person like everyone else so I’ll say

  59. the wickedest Says:

    I swear to you, sirs, that excessive consciousness is a disease — a genuine, absolute disease. For everyday human existence it would more than suffice to have the ordinary share of human consciousness; that is to say, one half, one quarter that that which falls to the lot of a cultivated man in our wretched nineteenth century […] It would, for instance, be quite enough to have the amount of consciousness by which all the so-called simple, direct people and men of action live…Fyodor Dostoyevsky

    Great topic. You started a board hoping to find others afflicted with the disease of genius. And you got your ass handed to you for it. What were you thinking ya arrogant egotistical maniac? That’s simpleton jargon for I couldn’t understand what your saying. And they’re not going to let you get away with trying to one up them with your fancy words and stuff. What nonsense. Your humility is clearly evident in your writing and that speaks volumes. Attempting to connect to like minded individuals on the internet is a great idea in theory, yet (imho) futile in practice. Personally, I found Mensa. I strongly suggest you look into it. And if the shoe fits, wear it. If not, more power to ya…

    • Anonymous Says:

      Even if the sock fit, he wouldn’t wear it.
      “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” -Albert “Simpleton” Einstein

      • the wickedest Says:

        Sometimes its best never to have scratched that itch. How were you to know that was the one train whos brakes were cut and only could be stopped after the full spreed derailment and crash which bacame public spectacle . I’m not a gambling man but if I were I would have pulled the trigger with those odds.
        I personally would drop the cpu screen, and pick up star-gazing. A plus is the moonlight will allow you to see the mire so you’ll know what you just got into and at the very least gazing into the stars during your demise seems the preferable way to go over straining your eyes staring into an lcd screen.
        and you need to hold onto the mask of dumas. No longer will you need it to hide your identity, but smashing into a tree bc your busy gazing into the stars won’t hurt as much with an iron mask on..

      • Anonymous Says:

        Of course you would have pulled the trigger, because you’re weak. Recommending anyone to take their own lives even indirectly only speaks volumes about you as a person. Everybody knows that genius has a heart and that’s what differentiates him from mere intellectuals. You’re just a frustrated intellectual. Frustrated because you can’t get the real talented geniuses to hop on your bandwagon. Bravo, it seems from reading comments here, that you have a habit of pissing off the most talented ones and they leave because you’re a waste of time.

        Much to your chagrin, there has been no derailment and certainly no crash, although no shortage of you trying, but what else would you expect from a frustrated chihuahua who barks like he thinks he’s a wolf. “Attracting this kind of attention to myself”, I was talking about invasion of privacy. Yeah, I got really mad when I realized what this blog is really all about: Collecting IP addresses and with the right resources you can find out a lot about a person, study them, reply to some of their comments in metaphors and others by adding details of their personal lives in a way that only they will understand. You hate me because I won’t hop on your train and because I expose the truth. Average people like you take life so seriously because you have so much invested in it, but our kind will not help you with your profiting schemes. Sorry I ruined this one, maybe you should just start another blog and get a second fake eye patch to cover both of them and a jarhead cut that way people will respect your leadership more. lol.

        You seem to enjoy getting your balls busted… I think you secretly like taking it up the ass too.

        • Ken Says:

          Hm. You seem to have gone off the tracks on this one.

          1) I don’t know why you’re attacking me because I haven’t really been involved with this thread of conversation at all. You’re talking to other people.

          2) I’m too busy to collect the IP addresses of random people on the internet. Seriously?

          3) This is your only warning: if you get this squirrelly again and start slinging insults around just to get a rise, you won’t be able to post here anymore.

          • Anonymous Says:

            This is my only warning? Uh, really? I thought it was only the second one. lol.
            RANDOM people? No, a very specific type of people that you seem very interested in and as one of your computer technician friends said will often go out of your way to find. But first you put them to the test to see if they’re worth pursuing. And if they don’t cooperate, you get nasty behind the scenes.
            Wattsamatta? Did I hit a nerve? Was I too strong for you? Did you expect me to fold, or to pull the trigger? Where’s your buddy, he disappeared and you instantly appeared? What is this good cop, bad cop routine? I understand your methods of sifting, I recognize your patterns and know how you think no matter how many masks you hide behind or people you use to do your dirty work. Finally you decided to show your face if it is indeed your real face. It helps when you recognize someone. I never forget a face, but in your case I might make an exception. I can find out who you really are too, and where you live. As uncle Charlie used to say, you can’t hide forever.

            • the wickedest Says:

              you’re shot out..

            • Ken Says:

              It wouldn’t take much to find out who I am, haha.

              Listen, man. I’m sorry for whatever you’re going through, I hope you get the help you need, but I’m not going to let you post here anymore.

              Seek help, paranoid is no way to go through life.

        • James Says:

          Yo Anonymous/Claude big possibility of being what you said but if you don’t want to share then don’t lol. I honestly read all this and I don’t give much of my mind not more than a mere 10% as to not have my mind invaded. Yes you are right about certain points and another thing you be be too careful but you know they say it’s better to be too careful than the end result if you weren’t.

          I’m you on most of your points just not on the one where you lack emotional control. Yes it happens to me the same thing…. and im only 17 years old but the thing is you still lack emotional control even if your just pointing pure facts.

          Just an advice anyways…. Don’t take it in the wrong way thanks.

          Which btw can provide email and ect so you can see im not one of the multiple facets created to gather data on people over here… Maybe i’m wrong about the multiple facets but you know the first time i came upon this site i became a bit careful about the things you mentioned.

      • James Says:

        lol a bit arrogant but true anonymous.

    • Anonymous Says:

      As politely indicated by the wickedest, attempting to connect to like minded individuals on the internet is futile in practice. Just in case no genius ever thought of it, I’d like to recommend /, because it’s on the internet and it’s futile in practice… Nevermind. Sometimes I get so mesmorized by the ornamental structure of my phrase that I fail to realize the content of the following completely contradicts it. In simpleton terms: shit don’t add up. Or the general intent is noble, but I’m working on my Logic a little bit, that’s all no worries. I’ll leave it up to you to take advise, assess, conclude, take initiative, make recommendations, address the problem, proceed, move forward, move the process forward, implement the provisions of the initiative, meet these challenges, make tuff decisions, like how much soft money can i expect to collect in exchange for my core values, serve the nation, misscommunication, quoted out of context, twisted my words, mistakes were made, don’t look at me, probly someone in my office, there is no evidence, no one has proven anything, exhonorated, I just want to put this thing behind me, go on with my life, put this thing behind me and go on…

      You should have gotten used to giving up on the idea of being understood by the only people ever capable of doing so, long ago. Your job is to understand, not to be understood. There’s no place for you in a herd of intellectuals. You are wasting your time. Go back into your shell, and concentrate on your gifts. Everything will fall into place. No one said it was going to be this hard, but they promised it was going to be worth it. Good luck.

      • the wickedest Says:

        Bravo. Finally a man I would share a prison cell with had I no say in the matter. I hate pissing contests.
        In case no ignoramus ever thought to do so, insert assinine comment pertaining to the contradiction that never was…it probably was best to say nevermind. is is neither a meeting place, message board, web discussion, nor blog. Simply info. Clearly your working on your logic, so who can blame you for such an oversight?
        And is that your psychobabble tangent or an uncited George Carlin skit? Must be another oversight, huh? No need for the condescending attitude you portrayed in your writing. You’re better than that. Sounds like someone replaced your t.p. with sandpaper.

      • Anonymous Says:

        LoL, I haven’t laughed like that in a while. What have I done, I turned you into a Chihuahua? Jesus Christ, my stomach still hurts!

        You’re right, I’m better than that.
        But what about you?

      • the wickedest Says:

        anonymous, I wouldn’t heckle you as I do if I didn’t think you could, as I do, appreciate getting my balls busted. Granted we’re both obscure but still our propensity to obfuscate astounds me. Although, not to the point I confuse them.

        “If you can’t convince them, simply confuse them”

      • the wickedest Says:

        as per your question. Am I better than that? Let’s see I accused you of urinating on my leg, and closed by implying you must wipe your ass with, clearly I may have a few character defects to iron out before I can assuredly say I am..

      • I’ve been around some very smart people over the years. Sometimes I go out of my way to find people who think differently. One of the impressions I’ve formed from this experience is that while sometimes they really do think differently enough that they have trouble expressing their ideas to others, much more often their challenge is that they feel like they need to appear clever as well as smart. In interactions, as with the rest of us, their social needs took over the problem solving objectives and they biased their thinking and dialog through the lens of cleverness in expression rather than clarity. Sometimes it is a lot of work to express a unique idea clearly to others, but more often I suspect it is just as much effort to be clear as clever but we are more motivated to be clever. That’s wonderful for humor, and I enjoy it, I just want to also make the small point that the same cleverness really does in my experience obscure clear communication when it is needed, and then people forget that’s what they’re doing and can’t understand why they are not being understood. Just one small point but I’ve seen it a lot in my own experience.

      • Anonymous Says:

        To Todd,
        I suppose not being aware of your own cleverness can be problematic, although I would be reluctant to call it clever if awareness was taken out of the equation. However in my experience most people just have a hard time discerning between cleverness and seriousness, so they assume and therefore misunderstand. And sometimes they even pretend to misunderstand, just to frustrate you.

        To the wicken,
        It is partly my fault, I should have thought of the consequences of signaling my presence. The last thing I wanted was to attract this kind of attention to myself, I just wanted to be anonymous. I guess you could say I’m the absent minded one who falls into the mire while gazing at my screen. That’s OK, I have an iron I can lend you. However I must warn you it’s got a lot of mileage on it and I may borrow it back from time to time.

      • the wickedest Says:

        haha…I responded to your comment. You’ll notice I commented on some random post instead of yours. The trees and iron I mentioned in my comment to you were metaphores. I realized after reading my comment that maybe I should get myself a real, tangible Iron mask they’re only metaphores until someone loses an ete

    • James Says:

      No answer to that except for the mensa part… They aren’t GENIUSES JUST SMART OR TO A PONIT EXTREMELY SMART. Arrogance is and will always be mostly a feature of people with lesser understanding as I will put it so to not be too rude to the rest of the people out there who will or might feel insecure or mad about my post… Thanks for the power man but mensa=just flaunting their lack of intelligence.

  60. I don’t personally think there’s anything intrinsic about superintelligence that makes it impossible for people so gifted/afflicted to make their ideas understood.

    I do think they have a somewhat analogous challenge to the unusually strong, unusually well coordinated athlete who gets by for most of their career without having to acquire high levels of skill or expertise because of their attributes. I think it may lessens the expertise aquisition curve, but only by a moderate amount if at all, and it may be an obstacle in some ways. Expertise and deep skills are long, long, hard work for anyone, even the most gifted. So people who can do so much with very little of them will very often not develop them.

    I suspect that the problem they then run into is when they need to interact with people of lesser gifts but far greater speciallized domain expertise and metacognitive skills, and they find that intelligence alone doesn’t neccessarily take them all the way to a bridge with those other folks. Their knowledge simply isn’t organized the same way. That’s part of definition of expertise in modern terms, a particular way of organizing domain knowledge, not raw cognitive ability.

    Just my impression.

    Kind regards,


    • Anonymous Says:

      Obviously it is not impossible, but I think what leads most to give up on being understood, is that the rewards don’t seem to match the effort. We have organized, and nerfed this world so much that raw cognitive ability seems to have become redundant. You don’t even have to think creatively anymore and are expected to just follow, or be made fun of in devious ways. I think that’s why most of us become negative, depressed and are driven to solitary activities which include abstract self expression. Abstract in a way that will not be able to pin down, pigeon hole, impose expectations, but simply appreciate for what it is. What would a team of people with lesser gifts but far greater organizational skills hope to gain from such a gifted person with just raw super cognitive ability? Would it be beneficial both ways, and how would you propose to bridge the gap?

      • “… propose to bridge the gap?”

        I appreciate this very much. I think that’s a useful way of looking at it and a good question.

        I don’t have enough experience with superintelligent people to answer this with much backing because of their rarity, but my guess would be that since their talent is grasping complexity, they would be especially well suited to putting them in a point position browsing situations and data where we don’t know what experts to bring in.

        People like this could be of irreplaceable value in seeing patterns in complex situations where the rest of us don’t have a clue how to make sense of the wealth of data except to apply rote statistical tools.

        So my guess is that the superintelligent would be well served learning methods putting a lot of information together and making sense of it, and acquiring enough expertise in a manageable set of fields to work closely with deeper experts in the applicable areas based on what they find.

        That’s just a wild abstract strategic idea though based on my stereotype of superintelligence so far. In reality I think everyone finds their niche based on the specifics of their talents and gifts and resources rather than adhering to my silly vision. 🙂

    • Anonymous Says:

      Perhaps, I should rephrase the question, if their knowledge simply isn’t organized the same way, how would you go about making it more in sync? Would you expect the super gifted to specialize more in particular domain expertise, or for the lesser gifted to come to the middle of the road, and somehow find a way to use that extra cognitive ability for mutual interests, or both of the above? Also if the afflicted poor bastard ends up specialized in meta cognitive skills and domain knowledge, he will end up being far superior in all aspects, and have no need to hang out with a lesser crowd. I don’t know it’s all very confusing, maybe you can enlighten me.


      • “if their knowledge simply isn’t organized the same way, how would you go about making it more in sync?”

        My own perspective is that this is not neccessarily the goal. If it was the goal, then to me the process would be the long journey of deliberate practice with good feedback that is the path to expertise regardless of talents.

        The problem with deep expertise is that it is domain specific and there isn’t enough time in one life to aquire it in multiple fields. Plus one of the unique advantages of genius is seeing things differently, which in part often means seeing across fields. So deep expertise isn’t neccessarily what they *should* be pursuing.

        So we have to find other ways of communicating across our barriers.

        To me that’s where the metacognitive skills and strategies come in. Not just for problem solving and critical thinking but also for communication. Seeing across very different perspectives is not unique to the superintelligent vs. the average (though obviously there are unique twists to it). It is a general problem faced by all of us. Being smart doesn’t give someone the skills and strategies for effective communication.

        In a way I think a lot of the notes here seem to attest that being very smart often seems to have the opposite effect. Very smart people often isolate themselves from the different thinking of others in frustration rather than specifically working to build bridges. I know a lot of very smart people but possibly the superintelligent multi sigma folks may well have a different set of issues, or have them to a degree I don’t entirely appreciate. I’m just going by what I’ve read and my own experience with people.

        Best regards,


    • James Says:

      Ok… I’ll give you a great analogy so you get what it is being in the world of genius and above…

      Your all alone in the world with another person. YOU KNOW YOUR SKILLS meaning your cognitive abilities as i’ll put it in this post for you. The other person is an idiot. So then let’s see you try to explain to the other person that she’s and idiot and she comes up with the answer NO YOUR AN IDIOT…. Now you have two idiots no? A label meaning smart/intelligent ugly/handsome and so on is based on what…? on observers yes? which is currently society yes? then if theres only one observer are you an idiot yes? YES YOU ARE

      Since according to labelling of what is your external self/other people you are in fact an imbecile even if you aren’t


      Ponder on this while I answer other posts rofl.

      • James Says:

        Man my replies are all over the place… Hate that about this blog it won’t add the reply after the reply/post directly.

  61. cplcpl Says:

    Todd, I can’t respond to you directly because the message thread is nested too deeply, but you’re totally right: smart people spend too much time trying to be clever.

    It’s not really their fault though. Very often, the only thing gifted people have going for them is their intelligence. They don’t have friends, sports, good looks, or whatever… just smarts.

    They get their sense of self worth from being “smart” which compels them to “talk smart” to prove to themselves and others that they are worthwhile human beings.

    But of course, that’s unhealthy. The more clever trick is making intensely complex ideas sound simple. See Richard Feynman.

    • @cplcpL: Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. People, if they’re fortunate, learn to use their best assets well. If someone’s best asset is a quick mind that can handle exceptional complexity, they very often realize they can use that to their advantage. At some point many people become aware of themselves and re-evaluate their life’s direction and assess their own humanity in a more broad way and pehaps become reflective as well as clever, which I think leads to wisdom as well as intelligence. I agree with you that communicating ideas of extreme complexity is a very clever trick.

    • James Says:

      Ok… if you aren’t lucky or lack the personality all you’ll have is your smartness… For the rest looks can be changed to a certain extent by how you dress your bodily movements and the way you talk—-all this adds up to the impression you’ll give even if you’re less than normal in looks or just plain normal. About sports… use your mind/brain i shouldn’t have to explain everything. If you apply your cognitive or intellectual capacities to every field known to man you’re bound to be of the best in everything… if not try to boost yourself mentally as to see your real potential… if that doesn’t work then practice… and if that doesn’t work well… you aren’t human???

      Jokes apart seriously think about the above with awareness or else what I have just written will just be plain and useless… or even seen as an insult…

      James yet again…

      • James Says:

        .. I didn’t mean all you’ll have is your smartness is was lost in thought and was just pointing out your post… You think all you have is your smartness which is really shameful since you aren’t using your smartness to figure out how you can be good or why aren’t you good in anything else but being smart….. USE YOU GIFT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD….

  62. alex Says:

    Heyy hey guys, would love to joint your convo’s… and receive your advice (if available 🙂 )…
    Though aware of my current mental/ cognitive limitations, I know I’m smart. I must be; I’m 17 years old, and have been coming back to this blog for a while now; I understand your (plurally) words, and find a lot of similarities in both our thought patterns. I have thought of many of the things the write’s here have posted before reading this blog; I have also reconciled with many of the issues raised among you guys–already. Some of you have reconciled with them as well, so you get what I mean.
    Anyway, I hope you all will believe me when I say that I understand EVERYSINGLE thing you guys say. Furthermore, many of the conclusions posted, by the likes of LG and the other “geniuses” here, I had concluded on my own already.
    Am I a genius? My only reason to ask for this title is to be allowed the opportunities that are associated with being a genius; my aspirations are not purely philosophical enlightenment (that goal was when I was 12-16.) Frankly I have reached a level of philosophical enlightenment that (to my youthful knowledge) represents the pinnacle of human philasophical achievement to this date… yes I push my mind to grapple existential questions that go beyond just the “matrix” of our universe, beyond the “singularity” (am i using singularity right?) but I do that in my spare time. I’ve reached a point singularity I believe, philosophically at least… now I strive to benefit myself by finding practical application of this world understanding. (By the way, I actually believe, that though geniuses are exceedingly rare, they survive through natural selection and they do “evolute.” Because at the most fundamental point there is life and there is death (roughly speaking) and as intelligence is a measure applied to “living” organisms, if your failing at life; your not a genius. Of coarse this is applied to natural environments, and we must take into account all the emotional grievances of human beings. This applies to The Genius, in the likes of the “Rennaissance man”. That said there are people who are exceptionally gifted in a single talent… within that sphere these people are geniuses. The Genius (my “rennaissance man”) though, is who’s genius encompasses many talents… these geniuses are an even rarer group. but i’m getting off topic…)
    Point is, I’m trying to validate my claim to genius because I want to be appart of your group so that I can find the inspiration (per-say) to rise out from my fucking annoying average existance. I know that I have the capacity to achieve great things, but I’m 17 years old and don’t want to waist another 17 years gathering “figuring out how to make the wheel” when someone already figured it out. I want validation, so that we can achieve something together.
    Hahaha, I also want the human companionship… sucks but I’m obsessively social. Aaand now I’m getting to the point about spotting a genius:

    When people first meet me they think i am stupid… everyone from really intelligent people to teachers to literally everyone… I don’t talk strangely, I dress really well (fashion wise; I have a knack for fashion because of my artistic and logical abilities).
    Its because I’m pretty, and blonde. Please don’t think that I’m being stuck up… I’ll say it how it is; I’m very beautiful at this moment in my life; think a blonde megan fox… yea for real. This is not my opinion, I base this on data; I’ve researched (i.e. beauty through the ages, from neffertiti, greek statues, rennaissance, modern etc… camparing personal photographs to megan’s face in adobe photoshop, etc…) I have very good social abilities… so people group me with that “popular stuck up” steryotype… dumb blond slut. Even when I say very intelligent things, no one cares… people in my school thought I was a complete idiot until they found out my AP scores… for example. Ugh. I wanted to be taken seariously, so I started engaging in very intelligent topics, saying very smart things, coming up with clever ideas… and frankly now I think people assume I’m annoyingly involved, smart people get annoyed when I explain the faults in their arguments; many of these “smart people” are nerdy boys, who I talk to simply to release some of the intelligence buildup in my head ughhh… then those boys get intimidated and just agree, and shut up. Everyone fucking shuts up after I prove a point because they can’t find any faults with my arguments… I want communication ughhhhhhh! I don’t want to be finding faults… I want to be accomplishing goals, otherwise why bother living, life is to live… or go die. I AM SO BORED.

    • James Says:

      OMG JUST OMG lol… Man at one point i was really wishing your were a guy so we could relate on every point be it about not flaunting how let’s say good looking you are or be it about your intelligence…………. So ya let’s see if you are at this level at 17 I look forward to knowing how you will be at 20s and beyond. I already where you thinking will be but anyways let us discuss if you feel like you want to… I’m 17 but i have figured out what you struggle with and i hope i can come in handy just ask ill answer.. For the rest bleh i agree on everything from top to bottom no comments except for the fact it’s too good to be true.

      Won’t use f words due to the many critics he had throughout life…

      • James Says:

        I wasn’t implying your flaunting rofl.. i was saying i relate as to not be misunderstood and maybe dissed…

  63. alex Says:

    making a note… my response is a little all over the place. I apologize, i didn’t proof read AT ALL and typed pretty quickly… I’m pretty tired at the moment, so excuse me if i don’t make perfect sense! I can explain everything in the morning, if anyone has questions.

    I’m also very curious; Ken: you mentioned somewhere that you are very young and have already made millions. Any advice you could give me?

    And lastly, this blog is one of the best blogs I’ve found… its just so wonderful to communicate with clever, ingenious, brilliant… hahah spot on people. There is just something so beautiful when people who have stretched the human mind to its “limits” come together and wonder beyond…
    We’re like the next step in evolution; and compared to the average people we are like Titans of some sort; so dangerous to these average folk with our capacities and yet so driven and willing to bask in the singularity/enlightenment we have achieved; bask in the oness we have to the universe. We walk among them (average people) and most of the time they don’t even know it… we talk to them, dumbing ourselves down, and they don’t even know what they’re up against!
    of coarse I say all this with some humor, reveling, just for a moment, in one particular way of seeing the situation.
    Don’t mean to sound like a snob: i find value in all living things, and can praise humanity at length.

    • Ken Says:

      I really understand what it’s like to be judged by my appearance, and not in the way you think.

      I think you should use your looks to your advantage. It sucks now that people underestimate you, but being attractive gives you some incredible opportunities because you can get away with so much. Most good looking people skate through life with nothing to back their looks up. If you are one of people with both going for them, then you have a serious edge.

      It may seem wrong somehow to capitalize on your good looks, but I think people create the rules of how to treat them by how they treat other people. I think even people who disagree with me on that agree through their actions.

      For example, if a rapist goes to prison, are we upset by the idea of him being raped by his cell mate? Not really, because he created the rule that it’s okay to rape him when he raped someone else. When someone punches us, we are expected to punch back. When someone is rude to us, no one looks down at us for being rude. When we are kind and giving, people are expected to be kind back to us.

      Similarly, when someone judges you stupid or tries to use you because you’re beautiful, they create the rule that you can capitalize on your good looks to use them for your own ends. They created the rules.

      On the other hand, you do have some difficulty ahead because if you are very good looking, you will get things “for free” that others would have to work really hard for. That can breed intellectual laziness if you’re not really focused and driven. I was on the cover of a magazine this month and part of that was my legitimate accomplishments and effort. I have to acknowledge though that the other reason is that I’m a good looking man with an interesting twist and a wrenching story. I could skate on that alone, but I won’t. You shouldn’t either.

      Let me respond to a couple other things:

      1) I am young, but I’m not a millionaire yet. I did say I thought money was a trivially easy problem, and I proved myself right by retiring at 25 on passive income. I’m 26 now. We can talk about that if you want, but it’s kind of outside the scope of this comment thread.

      2) Everyone gets annoyed when you explain the faults in their arguments, unless they want to know them 8)

      3) We are not the next step in evolution. Data suggests we’re actually fighting a losing battle against a population that is becoming dumber and fatter as well. Evolution isn’t progressive, it doesn’t create increasingly “good” organisms. Whoever breeds the most wins. Fat and stupid humans appear to be breeding more than athletic geniuses. Go figure. That’s a kind of interesting problem to solve maybe (try not to become a Nazi…).

      4) There’s no need to apologize for being snob here. This place is safe for us.

      • alex Says:

        True true… I think I’m just caught up in some sort of short phased limbo right now with highschool… I’ll be 18 in 4 months at which point, well at which point I’m planning to begin pursuing “success”.. want to do PR since communication/manipulation comes so easily (when I want something I’ve always figured out a way to get it) and I enjoy being surrounded by people, dumb people, smart people.. whatever… I like moving, so a job like PR that involves a lot of travel seems good for me… PR in Fashion since I like it and its easy.
        Doubt I’ll persue it for long, my goal is to implement the buissness plans I’ve been creating etc… that’s where the real money is after all. Want to find some close friends/boyfriend like myself, and some entertaining people to surround us and live/make money, start a family somewhere in my twenties

        I know my capabilities; its just that EVERYONE is either bugging me “focus on your life right now” (when I bring my plans up, even immediate plans) or once I explain why my plans are good they give me some childish advice. I know what I can do, but I doubt myself everyday… hahaha its like some existentialist problem, how can I know the validity in my personal assumptions/analyzation when that validity is based soley on personal opinion (yes everyone tells me that I’m extremely intelligent once they finally get to really speak with me, or if they annoy me long enough I’ll use some of my “intelligent” capacity to shut them down… then they with enlightened sincerity “wow, didn’t know you were so smart.” Great.) I fear my assumptions are nothing more than some self created quagmire… I don’t know, I’m just really lonely and bored, hahaha I need to go take a walk with some buddy.

      • James Says:

        Ken everything is true except for the 3rd one. I won’t explain in this post since i explained in one of my earlier posts and when you read it please do answer me thanks.

    • James Says:

      Ok stopping a bit for your post. Read all my posts if you wanna get an answer to most of your post/reply.

      One thing or two would be about the stretched limit and the ponit of making the money.

      First and foremost maybe just maybe limits were stretched and we can go beyond them but these limits WERE THE LIMITS OF SOCIETY….

      Second. The money issue. So many ways to come up with such a trivial thing as money these days but yeah everyone needs some to achieve and do what they want on that i agree. In your mind it’s not that you do not know any way to get the million you but you just many ideas conflicting at once————— in other words too many possibilities which make no solutions if they conflict together.

      Solution? yes? put your ideas on paper try to separate them then try implying some of them and at some point/less than a year u should get the thing u searched for.

      I leave my name out of respect lol… too formal i suppose

      • James Says:

        Hmm btw most of my replies are all over the place because it doesn’t follow the post/reply which i was answering directly.

  64. alex Says:

    hahaha i know your point #3 (just wondering though; a) that data is based on the population as a whole
    b) that data is based on the fact that the environment has undergone relatively little change in the last 10,000 years or so… in cases like that don’t organisms usually reach their “evolutionary peak” and stay there since changes to there genome would be rather unhelpful, detrimental even.
    Now take the brightest of our “intelligent” bunch… surely the brightest have found a way to find one another (since can’t we base one aspect of intelligence on finding the BEST possible mate)
    And even, the average super intelligent people… don’t they seem to be mating with others of their relative “level”. Now because the environment has not really changed all to drastically lets say genius man A and genius woman B have 4 kids… two might be geniusees, two might be average. Then two average people mate and all their four children are average. Now take into account that there are more average people to begin with.
    So yes as a whole, they seem to be reproducing at a higher rate than the geniuses. But were you to isolate the “genius” population, we might be reproducing just as quickly or nearly as quickly as the rest of the population. Why? because geniuses (and i’m not talking about some mentally defected person with one ingenious talent) are equally valuable in the evolutionary scheme to average people.
    But were we to have some kind drastic climate shift, I think that there would be a higher percentage of survivors among the geniuses than among the average people… we can even see this with the economic crash: (read this statistic somewhere, might be a little off) average people are having less kids because they can’t figure out how to take care of potential children (i.e. theyr poor) Rich people are having the same amount of kids because they can provide. Take the group of rich people and they are usually above average mentally, so you’ll probably get a decent percentage of geniuses among them. And among the poor, the few geniuses can figure out how to provide for kids anyway.
    With climate shifts, I feel like nature is slowly weeding out the geniuses. Idk, I might be wrong, just a thought.

    and lastly, hahahahha I’ll try not to be a Nazi, it might help bc im Jewish but I’ll keep that in mind =) In all seariousness though, I don’t really care about weeding any people out… I enjoy people’s company regardless of their “intelligence” level. I can kind of feel for them, in the end we’re all in it for the same thing. Its how we go about achieving those things.

    • alex Says:

      oops… didn’t mean to say “With climate shifts, I feel like nature is slowly weeding out the geniuses. Idk, I might be wrong, just a thought.” meant to say opposite of weeding out, can’t think of the word right now. uncovering? more or less.

      • James Says:

        hmm and more hmms. No comments well thought post but about the fact that they breed equally that is completely wrong… The rich are a monirity btw so comparing 100 million to 6.9 billion isn’t much comparing to extravagating. Then if geniuses were let’s say breeding at the same pace which they aren’t due to the fact they cannot find mates easily or be a couple easily… today the world would be inclined to support a genius level and then our “gift” would be banality plain and simple.

        Keep going with your posts it’s interesting to read people’s thoughts here so i encourage you to keep the posts coming lol.

  65. Peter Says:

    Ok, well I’ve been trying to think of how to respond to this blog for a while, it deferentially caught my attention. There seems to be something wrong with this conversation and it’s bothered me since I read the original post. I guess my first question would be why no-one has found this post offensive? The gift of high intelegence is not something to brag about, it is not something to complain about either.

    The second thing that bothers me, and I find myself also going down this path, is that almost everyone posting on this page has either made a concerted effort to sound smart, or everyone here is really smart which I find hard to believe. Let’s loosen up and not concentrate so much on the language, it sounds pompous (probably start there if your getting glazed looks from people)

    Thirdly, why didn’t the author of this blog make a blog about exestential intelegence to find other gifted people with similar interests to his, rather than just complaining of the loneliness of intelligence. It seems to me that there is no large difference between complaining about high IQ and having allot of money, or being athletic, and there is a reason that people in society don’t complain about these things. Because it’s rude and offensive to do. It makes people think your a douche, these are issues you talk to a psychologist about, or maybe your family, not strangers on the internet.

    This page to me is the equivocation of a bunch of rich people talking about how nice it finally is to talk to someone in their class. “How does it feel to have 3 houses?” Most people just want you to shut up.

    I’ve taken IQ tests as well, there a bunch of bull. The test is so unrealistic, and I’ve taken the whole thing twice. First of all (I took these tests with phycologists and they were done very proffesionally) theres no question I had an advantage because of the family and the community I was raised in, the books I was exposed to and the culture in my house. Do you think that people from the Ghetto do worst on tests because they are naturally less gifted or because they havn’t been taught the rudimentary math and vocabulary that is tested in the standard IQ test. And I do realize that things like spacial reasoning are realistically natural, it’s hard to teach, but I can’t see how the vocab section could be considered fair to undereducated people.

    I know that for extremely gifted people (of whom I am not among) these issues don’t really apply. There are off the charts people, who given any test would do extremely well, however for the vast majority of the population, from the 85-115 iq’s, and even above and below that mark, the potential of the individual is not that different. As one poster before me said, most people could be taught high level math given that time (could they apply it though??) I guess thats the question.

    I’m pretty much just shooting the shit on this responce, but you have to realize the uselessness of your complaints, and how they sound to other people. I’m a pretty good guitarist, but I don’t complaine when people don’t play to my level. I’d be a jackass than. I know it’s different because it’s your brain, it’s your body, I get that. But when it comes to social interaction you have to be patient. You have to relate to people in other ways,play sports, do art etc. And if you care about people, our planet, your social standing, just do you best to help out. If you do have the brain you say you do, put it to some good use rather than complaining, shouldn’t a gifted man like you be above that?

    • Ken Says:

      I agree with you that people are trying way too hard to sound smart.

    • James Says:

      ok… your the kind of person who’s kind yes who’s understanding yes but yet again at your level( not trying to be RUDE I MEAN IT). I never took any IQ tests and more than that i do not base AND WILL NEVER DO every thought i have by mere society standard tests…. it would be pathetic if i actually did. Then all the people here are smart the thing is genius but the the thing is in society these people are mostly the exceptions where the statistics of 80% and above mostly won’t apply to them…


      I will answer that right here and now as i’ve answered everyone out of the genius level…——–not trying to be cocky just trying to make the difference in your mind—– you consider us with a lot of skepticism and that is why i am trying to make it clearer to your mind… let go of your ego/emotional part and just think logically all the way… LOGIC PLS. ok

      So when u say then shouldn’t you It’s the same as saying well since you’re handsome shouldn’t you go out with a lot of girls… bad examples lets take a better one…. SINCE YOUR GOOD AT MATHS SHOULDN’T YOU HELP OTHERS???!!!


      I use caps only so you can focus on the above not for anything else arrogance/insulting ect… So yeah put all the text above together with my explanation and the information and the logical point of view and u will reach the conclusion ultimately that you might have been wrong all the way… referring to all your life… not to be rude yet again just pointing out the obvious so u can BECOME CONSCIOUS…



      reflect on all this then if u can come up with an answer worth replying to you WILL hear from me again…

      Genius or just mad/fool according to society’s standards/opinion?

      The difference between a fool or a madmen and a genius is their ideas… society thinks they both are the same from their opinion on WHAT THEY SEE… so the difference between a genius and a fool is as thin as paper…

      • Peter Says:

        Just wanted to say, my IQ’s 130 combined, which isn’t really in the genious range, maybe close enough to understand it though. My best friend has a 160 IQ, he does incredible things, he writes in a style I could never accomplish, his ideas are insightful most of the time in a way that is out of my league, his poetry is unbeleivable. At the same time he fails allot of classes, and I beat his ass often in squash and other sports. Regardless of his high IQ, it has not gotten in the way of our relationship. I still have allot of insight to offer him, I think of things in ways differently than he does, together we have great conversations that we both benifit from. Just saying, you can be friends with a commoner and have a damn good time.

        If thats any sort of a responce for you

      • Peter Says:

        And saying things as you think them is a bad way to go through life, you should re-consider that, a little reflection wouldn’t hurt your writing.

  66. Hi Peter. Although I disagree with you that there is “something wrong” with the conversation threads here (some of them, including the original post I’ve found very interesting), I agree with what I took as the spirit of your reply. We tend to get caught up in things that seem important to us. Yet things that seem important to us can be very arbitrary. Measurements of intelligence do often fall into that category I think.

    Also, complaining about “gifts” does tend to come off to others as petty most of the time.

    In possible support of this thinking, one aspect of this tendency is so pervasive that psychologists refer to it as a “fundamental error” that we have in attributing too much of what happens to us to our traits and too little to the situations we find ourselves in.

    Thanks for posting your thoughts here.

    • Rats, I must have hit the wrong reply button, I intended my above reply to be to Peter, not to Ken. Sorry about that.

    • Peter Says:

      Thanks for taking the spirit of the comment rather than the words, I’m sorry I just get annoyed when people say they are so smart, people have told me I’m smart and I really don’t understand the majority of whats going on.

      Am I the only one that feels this way? Take for instance a politicians, just because they are pretty vissable figures, none of them seem to be capable of doing their jobs. Throughout history humans have shown time and time again an inability to govern themselves rationally, to avoid war, to represent the needs of all the people. How could you expect one man to understand the complexities of modern society, made up of millions of independent entities with their own thoughts dreams and desires. Societies a big wheel, I guess it’s instututions not people that control it.

      I guess my question is, if these hyper intelegent people do exist, where are they? I’m not asking for a god like figure, just some rationality of how our society does things. I mean it’s not even contested that we’re burning through resources at an unsustainable rate.

      a;lsdflasovin whatever

      • Peter Says:

        Just for example, if you’ve ever seen the show on the discovery channel, or whatever channel it was, where they had prime athletes compete against animals in various physical challenges. The humans, even the strongest fastest ones, could never beat some of these animals on a physical level. However we spend so much time watching these same athletes compete amongst each other, and they always push themselves to be the fastest, when your really just the fastest human. It’s a little like being the tallest midget in the circus. I wonder if our human intelegence is similar to our athletic ability in that it really is pretty similar as the grand scheme of inteligence goes. That the difference between the dumbest human and the smartest one is very insignificant between the smartest one and the smartest entity in the universe, but were just in this closed system competing with ourselves, completely oblivious to our lack of abilities.

        • Ken Says:

          re: Politicians. I think there are people or at least groups of people who could do a significantly better job governing than the people who actually govern. However, the qualifications to govern are not the same as the qualifications to BECOME the governor. Becoming the king requires many skills that are maybe valuable, but very few of them are actually correlated with good governance.

          That having been, to your second point about being smart only relative to each other, the answer is YES. The difference between a dolt and a genius is trivial compared to the difference between say a mouse and a human or a human and a legitimate super intelligence. Just no comparison.

          But that fact doesn’t make us feel less isolated. Standard Deviation counts for something, I think.

        • @Peter: I agree that you seem smart, those are very interesting insights regarding the sorts of the places we invest so much energy.

          My take on it at this point is that one reason we see so little “super smartness” even among the people on the far end of the statistical tail of psychometric testing is that we tend to assume a false baseline for rationality in at least two senses.

          My suspicion is that we may: (1) compare ourselves to an ideal of optimum rationality which is not realistic, that is not the way human minds reason at all, and (2) assume a closer relationship between intelligence and rationality than is the case.

          One line of evidence seems to be found in the heuristics and biases research that shows consistent and significant differences between what we would suppose a rational answer to a question to be based on mathematical and statistical logic on the one hand and the answer that even intelligent experts arrive at in their reasoning on the other hand. Various shortcuts in our thinking are not lessened by virtue of psychometric intelligence.

          I think people who are exceptionally good at reasoning exhibit a set skills, strategies, and intellectual virtues, in addition to intelligence and expertise. Some of that seems to apply broadly, but some is specific to the domains where they focus their efforts.

          Another line of evidence is research comparing the domain problem solving performance of experts with that of higher intelligence non-experts. Higher intelligence seems to make for better performance at low levels of expertise, but high expertise tends to make for better domain performance than high intelligence (in domains where expertise matters).

          I agree with you that we seem to live in closed little systems for the most part and that the possibility that some people might be able to transcend that sometimes is tantalizing.

          • Peter Says:

            We absolutally assume a close relationship with high IQ and rationality, unfortunetially many examples have shown that they are not correlated. I mean, I would be doing my awful economics work if I was rational.

            Heres a question that get me, where does inspiration come from? Do you think it has to do with mutations of neurons firring paths? Which would just cause mutations in a basic knowlage? So would that make our brains and ideas the mirror image of our evolution as a species, so shared ideas develop and mutate.

            In which case we our only really important as perceivers? Anywho, thanks for the responce.

            Also, Ken, I was trying to say that standard deviation does count for something. It obviously does or else this sight wouldn’t be popular, but I bet everyone feels isolated to some extent, even the most “average” person

            • Sindre Says:

              Not as much answering your question as going off on a tangent, I’d like to say that I – while exhibiting an IQ that, according to the WAIS-III and the psychologist who administered the test to me, is somewhere in the Norwegian 140s (with a standard deviation of 15), or in other words much smarter than average but not so smart it hurts – am still given to most of the usual kinds of irrationality.

              As an example, I collect Warhammer miniatures. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a hobby in assembling and painting miniatures and/or playing wargames with them but… I. collect. miniatures.

              The majority of these miniatures now adorn the shelves in my room, most of them still in their packaging, uninitiated projects unlikely to ever be completed.

              While I certainly don’t -need- the money, living still at home with all necessary commodities provided by my parents, I can certainly say that the vast majority of this spending is irrational. It’s not like I enjoy having these boxes staring at me, a constant reminder of squandered potential.

              But when I’m visiting the local provider, the shelves there – filled as they are with boxes of little plastic and metal miniatures – tug at me with very tangible force. I’ll never be an alcoholic or a smoker, because I abstain from these things. But if there is an irrational addiction in my life, that’s the one.

              I don’t know if that anecdote leaves you with anything, but it certainly springs to mind when people suggest that there isn’t a very strong correlation between high intelligence and rationality. A lot of the time, I’m just fulfilling my cravings, same as any other animal – whether or not those cravings leave me in a better position than before.

              All that said, I would be remiss if I claimed there was no correlation between intellect and rationality; there -has- to be. Direct causation isn’t necessarily involved, but people who are more intelligent than others live better lives as well (in terms of health, longevity, social status etc.). The exact causal chain eludes me, but I think it deserves consideration. It seems fairly obvious to me that high intelligence changes something in the way we think, even if genius and fool alike are bound by common heuristics.

              • Ken Says:

                I think high intelligence is just a necessarily prerequisite for rationality. If you’re dumb, you can’t really do it, so almost no one does. IF you’re smart you could theoretically do it, so more of those people do. But not everyone.

                It’s like having a really fast motorcycle. If you don’t have one you can’t possibly ride it. If you have one, you might be able to go really fast on a motorcycle, but only if you know how to use it, Just having the motorcycle doesn’t mean you’re able to drive it.

            • I agree, the relationship seems very weak across the range of human intelligence.

              I’ll also agree with Ken that people of very low intelligence usually don’t reason well. Perhaps this is because they lack a certain minimum of capacity to buffer and organize the particulars of a problem while considering them.

              Still I don’t think having more capacity than that makes us reason better in general. At least, it does not seem at all proportional.

              I think thqt’w because good reasoning requires a lot more than psychometric intelligence to do well. To expand on Ken’s motor vehicle analogy, having a really powerful engine but no skills to drive or navigate doesn’t get us very far, and is more likely to land us in a ditch than farther down the road.

        • James Says:

          Interesting post Peter. Something nice to answer to I suppose.

          You are right about the part of we are just competing between ourselves while there might be something else out there be it an entity or not.

          Do you know that if there was an entity out there….
          Capable of what the entity the society describes why would it bother with just a non-existant race planet solar system galaxy universe and so on.

          Then I’ll go straight to the point. The difference between humans in intelligence or knowledge is exponential. Between normal animals it’s linear. Between human and the arrogant word we used to describe such an entity(if it exists of course) which would be god is infinite.

          Then what can we conclude?? I found out it was a pure and simple waste of time to think of what you can grasp… Until I can grasp more I prefer not to involve myself in something out of my reach. People won’t start by the 50th stair right because it’s impossible if you only try to climb the stairs only with the help of you body/leg. Same thing with god it’s unreachabled——-The concept in question shouldn’t even be pointed out because that’s only human arrogance and ignorance trying to name everything and anything.

          Yet it is still not known if there’s the concept of god or not either ways humans shouldn’t even think about what is beyond them.. You don’t think about the 50th step if you can’t grasp it’s reality. It doesn’t exist until you reach it ??? got it?

          Anyways vague explanation but it should do.

      • James Says:

        Maybe too young too emotionally unstable or maybe too mad at society for the treatment they received maybe just disgusted by people maybe just don’t want to have to rack their head for other people… who haven’t brought anything to them… Just some of the possibilities of where a genius is xD

        I got your spirit but took your words because your thinking is too simple… I answered bluntly and did yet again so u can lift your limits… which u wont about 99.99999999999999999999 and so on % sure… since you cannot lift what u do not see/feel or even touch right? right.

        James again… getting tired of answering all these posts …

  67. Peter Says:

    Well clearly it does matter, trying to transfer from metaphysical questions to talking about how much beer you drank at a party last night can be pretty tricky and abrupt. For me it is helpful to play sports, and music, because it’s not all conversation based, you can kinda space out while you socialize which is nice. I’ve also found humor to be essential to not getting frustrated, also finding the right group of friends who can put up with your pretty useless ideas.

    Why are Billy Joel and Elton John correlated on Pandora? Thats so offensive to Elton John. Anyways, thanks for the sight and the responses,I’ll be tracking along

  68. Sindre Says:

    An idea came to my mind earlier this night. It was one that I felt would be worthwhile to bring up here. It’s a simple question, really, minted at any who have faced the realization that they are particularly clever.

    Has it ever scared you, your potential?

    I’ll explain: I’ve made the realization, recently, that I am very afraid of committing my intellect to any particular purpose. From the trivial to the transcendent, the thought rattles me.

    I talked about irrational desires in an earlier comment, and how they seem to be as much a guide to me as anyone else. When I see great accomplishment – be it in fiction, science, everyday life… – I feel drawn to emulate such examples. Yet the very thought frightens me.

    What’s more, it’s growing increasingly debilitating. Sometimes, I hardly dare speak, despite the fact that I don’t doubt my own sensibilities; rather, it’s for fear of the consequences of saying what’s on my mind.

    So I wonder… have you lot ever felt the same way, and did you manage to overcome that fear? If so, how?

    • the wickedest Says:

      No. This is simple behavioral conditioning — when you avoid something you fear (either consciously or subconsciously), your automatically reinforcing this avoidance behavior. Thus, reinforcing your habit of procrastination, so as time goes by, it becomes harder and harder to get yourself to take action to make changes. How do you overcome your fear? By addressing and eradicating the underlying issues causing you to feel this way.

    • alex Says:

      might be behavioral conditioning, like wickedest said.

      also, or in addition, might be that you’re afraid, consciously or subconsciously that you might fail or mess up; most likely your NOT scared that you yourself will mess up, but you might be scared that certain realities/factors in the life/universe may randomly appear and get in your way..
      not sure I’m making sense (tired): basically, you invest the time, energy and resources into achieving something amazing and then some random natural event gets in your way and there’s no feasible way to work around that.

      I get that sometimes too… for me though, its like I see the potential/and know how of creating something so beautifully PERFECT. I then see it as an entity itself; i.e. the goal and process as one. So then if something comes along to ruin my chances of achieving said goal, its like this destruction of something perfect… which is frustrating.
      Its like being scared to carry a very expensive and loved crystal vase.

    • alex Says:

      or maybe your afraid (conciously/subconc.) of the effects and responsabilities you’ll have to deal with after realizing accomplishment/goal of such “greatness.”

      Maybe you subconciously doubt your sensibilities… or maybe you realize that by accomplishing something extrodinary, you may be faced with new problems that your “sensibilieties” may not be able to deal with as efficiently as they can deal with your everyday problems?
      face it head on? go accomplish one of these goals, try to commit. And then bask in all the glory 😉 I mean why else be a genius.

      • Sindre Says:

        > face it head on?

        It’s funny that you should mention that. I adopted a new motto since I made that comment.

        It’s “Harden the fuck up.”

        Working just great so far.

        • James Says:

          Hmm afraid of your potential.

          Yes once I imagined what could happen if something suddenly happened to me psychologically and I used what I have(intellect) to do some destructive things…

          From that point on I tried to keep myself in check as to not arrive to any fatal conclusions.

          And yes facing your fears or anything you described is the best way. Facing it will give you much more possibilities and you will grow at the same time.

  69. Anonymous Says:

    I have never heard a question I have not had the answer to, or at least a really good response to, that didn’t involve just trivial facts. Philosophy, Science, Economics, Sociology, Psychology, etc. (yes I am familiar with self skepticism)

    I feel I have this problem far worse than even you described. Partly because I have taken the strict philosophical viewpoint that I must convince my opponents to be sure I am correct (my take on Lehr), even if they are less intelligent opponents. From your description, you sound like you are still in the stage where you feel like if you could only explain it a little more clearly….

    I have studied the issue of intelligence in far greater detail than you seem to have. I am completely aware of how to get around handicaps of less intelligent people to get my point across, and exactly what those handicaps mean having studied people on the opposite extreme (yet still functional) in great detail. My problem is not glazed looks, but rather anger and forced handicapping for successfully explaining things out of turn.

    You say borderline people can’t abstract, but really that ability exists on a scale parallel with IQ. The higher your IQ, the more abstractions you have to use as premises in deductive reasoning. I am guessing you figure something like this is responsible for their inability to reason on your level… But if you get a good instinct for that, you can get an instinct of how to break down any argument for any IQ level.

    However, at least on the tests I have just happen to take so far I have only scored a 140 and thus qualify what you refer to as “mildly retarded”. I scored higher once, but I think it was a mistake. Further I have met many people (professors and such mostly) with higher IQs that were clearly far less mentally efficient than I am.

    When I think of glazed stares, IQ isn’t what comes to my mind but rather conditioning is. Most people just don’t give a crap about anything other than getting attention from other people, high IQ or not. Some of those with higher IQ’s just tell better jokes and are more witty. You seem oddly somewhere in between. I guess that is what happens when one of them goes off the chart with their IQ.

    When I compare people like me to them, I think of the hierarchy of needs. There is this funny need near the bottom of the pyramid that most people fail to distinguish from the physical needs (food, shelter) and seem to have a hard time understanding at all. To them the pyramid is all about carving out your place in the social structure. This one devious beta in college brought it up in an attempt to downplay my moral influence on his social group by saying I was “insecure”.

    Though the name of the need is “security” it deals with being aware of your surroundings so you don’t get eaten or whatever else, not feelings of uncertainty in social situations.

    When I was little, there was lots of violent chaos, and not much else. I completely blocked out anything (like all the screaming) other than potential threats (the thrown object went in my direction, or I was mentioned), and played with legos and computers. Other kid’s behavior made no sense to me – riddled with what I would now call debate fallacies and deception. Mine was modeled on a system of transparency, and fairness I guess from determining how my father’s behavior of taking out work frustrations on my mom was wrong.

    But before anyone could label me Aspergers or anything like that, I had observed my classmates enough to construct a theory of human behavior and understand them not as people but rather as machines. So even as I spent most of time isolated and unable to perceive my classmates attempts to socialize with me (too busy piecing together syllables and body language of people talking about me across the room), I would give responses containing wisdom far beyond my years in key moments in confrontations with adults.

    Pretty soon, I branched out into philosophy, and epistemology. Here I extracted even more rules of inference and debate and reinforced others than I had deduced. I also extracted automatic tactics for dealing with all kinds of bad behavior from other people. Once I had tested these rules in actual social situations, I was able to relegate paranoia to my subconscious. I would later often find myself amidst Machiavellian plots to expose other people’s lack of sincerity and honesty without any conscious awareness of what I had done.

    It was then that it started to dawn on me the difference between me and not only other people but other geniuses. I had the ability to actively program my subconscious mind. All those rules of inference I had been deducing since I was a kid were long since completely automated. Someone walks toward me in my sleep, or an alarm is about to go off, I wake up. I finish other people’s sentences all the time, and they think I am psychic. I react to things instantaneously.

    When I meet people with IQ’s higher than mine, they usually get lost in rhetorical metaphors and use their enormous brainpower trying to solve the NP hard problem of reasoning in metaphor while constantly ensuring the two things being compared are alike in every way necessary to necessitate the same result. I feel sorry for them.

    Those people who skip the need for security tend to define truth as social convention. And as metaphors are all that is required to persuade other people, they like metaphors. They then spend any extra brainpower towards the “secondary” goal of determining which metaphors are accurate and which are not. They don’t get very far.

    In terms of computational theory, I look at the conscious as an energy saving check of how effectively you are reaching your goals (which I will not get into). Instead of constantly checking the database of correlations an adult has amassed, the conscious checks if current going ons indicate that we are getting closer to our goal. Those amassed correlations fail all the time (well at least for you clowns) and need to be further specified. We recognize and deal with this through the stages of loss, when we consciously recognize that things are not going our way. Anger is like testing for outliers, and Bargaining is reprogramming one’s own understanding.

    The less often this happens, the more automated things become. If you use all your processing time trying to impress other people, you don’t get very far. Here is a concrete example of what I am talking about.

    Suppose your son asks you what sportsmanship means.. You say something like it is kind of like honor, like the knight had in that movie he saw. He tries to figure this out, and wonders if a knight should take off his helmet and shake hands with enemies in a battlefield. Or if he should fight enemy teammates to the death.

    My kid simply observes a knight and a judge and notices a similarity – they both have power but don’t use it selfishly but rather according to rules that serve some greater purpose. Honor. A hole in a boat hull, and a man who doesn’t do his job. Integrity. People with mutually exclusive goals who limit their tactics for reasons like safety or fun. Competition.

    The integrity of a competition depends on the honor of it’s participants. They fit like puzzle pieces. It’s amazing what you can do when your main goal is to understand the world around you and not impress other people.

    • Daniel Ruthford Says:

      I like what you have said here. I am however inclined to believe that one, labels like Aspergers can be quite the cop out for many bad parents. (Manipulative Interpersonal styles are pretty useless when it comes mutual respect). Two, debate is pointless, discussion is useful. Three, moral codes are arbitrary and therefore just as equally, pointless. It’s far better to make workable compromises, than to worry about having single immutable code that provides psychology vulnerabilities, to any manipulator.

      That aside, I think intelligence is the mere function of a better filter in a sea of information. The higher the IQ, the better one’s ability to filter out useless information and use what is left. That being said, we are also human and are pron to the same frailties that everyone else has. For example, one whom has extreme anxiety issues, would find themselves having great difficulty in concentration, in certain situations that he or she is uncomfortable. Making the use of one’s intellect, a difficult matter altogether.

      I personally find the discussions of mental masturbation (One’s IQ), utterly dull. It’s nice to scare a fool, but far more foolish to waste talents on a fool’s wisdom. Me and you, will always find ourselves making mistakes everywhere we go, no matter how ahead of the curve we may be. Let the inferior man wonder and wallow in his stupidity. Let him flaunt his titles and shallow powers. He will get nowhere, anyhow. That’s my opinion, do with it what you will.

      • James Says:

        Nicely said Daniel and I find your reply much more constructive than the earlier post but both are of a high level.

        Keep posting and don’t take my feedback as anything else than my thoughts thanks.


    • James Says:


      I will say you are right all the way except for some key points but your extremely aware which will make my post even more thought through since you posted something of a good level.

      Enough with the babbling.

      The reference to IQ as described by Daniel IQ is only a tool used by normal people which try to convince their feeble mind they can figure out someone of your level. IQ shouldn’t be used as reference or anything else in this blog but anyways…

      Then, about your abilities I find them quite compelling indeed.Sure I went through all you did but like Daniel said and I agree on that— You shouldn’t waste your time with non-existant beings. Since they cannot even understand themselves meaning their self why waste your time on them. They are non-existant but exist because people around them make them exist not because they know or they understood they exist. Unlike you that got that I strongly advise you to stop the waste of time because you are driven by hmm emotions when trying to explain or to defeat an opponent whit lesser understanding or intelligence than you. For the rest, your on the right track except try seeing farther than just your abilities— meaning if you can grasp what it means to see farther at that level your mind will take a nice leap to a level beyond genius.

      This is strictly my thoughts and I didn’t have any intentions of being arrogant for those who see it that way.

      And to finish. This reply was mostly for Daniel and Anonymous because they might have more chances of understanding what I wrote than the rest.


  70. Matt Says:

    Problem is we’re all douches and most of the time we can’t stand each other lol

  71. Socrates Says:

    go to which is the biggest and most popular philosophy site in the world. There are lots of other lonely guys like you. I am not saying they will all match your level of intelligence but some will, and others may even surpass it. For sure the model’s of understanding society and others that is discussed there makes more sense than what you describe here, so it will certainly be benefitial for you, and no doubt your input will be beneficial too.

  72. James Says:

    I will read that and thanks. The thing is a lot of philosophical people think only to the extent they can see. But since you say they might be at the level of this blog or farther then I will take a look at it.

    Thank you since this is the first real link… that seemed worth mentioning.

    • James Says:

      Checked it out and some people seem of this level or above but only a small minority. Instead in this blog it is a big majority the people at that level. I prefer to stick here I suppose but I will keep reading over there since some people’s thoughts are stimulating.

  73. Ken P Says:

    140+ IQ “Mildly retarded” genius man here. Had fun skimming the posts. Most entertaining comment: “Fat and stupid humans appear to be breeding more than athletic geniuses.” Kudos for that one. Yes, genius is lonely. And no, the answer isn’t to pontificate and build intellectual castles in the sky. The answer is to engage and connect. And to find gratitude in That Which Cannot Be (Rationally) Explained. If you were dumped in Zulu Land for the rest of your life, what would you do? Learn Zulu, of course! Seek, and ye shall find! And while you’re at it Geniuses…please check your grammar. The world is watching, and it counts. :0 Love on.

  74. jenna Says:

    So, I’m around 150 IQ, and in the eyes of people like you I’m an idiot. .. This could be insulting to some people but I definitely feel your frustration…. You feel alone… I’m young, like, barely (or under, I’d rather not specify) teenage years, and I feel like everyone just leaves you to do whatever geniuses do…. I feel sorry for you, in a way… because you’re so smart and can’t find that many people to relate to.. So you could easily pass tests to get into the online “High IQ society..” I have to try, like, twice to get into the adult ones…. (sorry, this is making no sense) But what I’m meaning to say is that everyone else is somehow isolated from you, and I feel your frustration… Good to know I’m not alone 😉

  75. alex Says:

    looking back at some of the comments I’ve made, has made me wonder what the hell was I thinking at the moment?! But that leads me into why I’m writing here right now:
    1) There are geniuses. (I don’t know if I am. I’m probably not though, at least based on my definition of genius.)
    2) A lot of people on here get hung up over IQ’s, or how good they are at math or how artists can be genius’s too, what about athletes etc… yes you can be a genius in a particular field, but that does not mean you’re a genius overall. I would think that a real genius is someone who is extremely intelligent, with stellar memory, a very quick mind and very quick reasoning skills. A real “genius” is someone who can apply their brain power to a great variety of different fields and do very well in each (and not JUST in theory).
    3) In real life geniuses, based on what I know and infer, are not like what you see in movies. I mean are there really people out there like the guy from Limitless (or the like)?! People who are like that on a consistent every day basis?
    4) I think a lot of the geniuses here are discontent because a) their not getting recognized for their genius and b) they’re setting the standard to high for being a genius (this would probs be an offshoot of points a and #3.)

    As for those who are lonely, you guys need to get involved in projects. That means, go and apply your brain power to something useful or go to University seminars, or conventions… or start a business. Get out into the world. I know it’s easier said than done, especially for the people too young to drive. But if you are truly a genius… then you are of the tiny percentage of the world population that can actually actively alter your environment, to suit your wants. So go do it. Most stupid, and average people are just as lonely as you are. The difference is they have no idea how to fix their situation…

    Just a few thoughts!

  76. Aleksia Says:

    I understand you perfectly. I feel like no one understands me either and therefore I am alone. I am aware that I am a near genius and simple-minded people call that arrogant. well that’s because they don’t have the mind-set I do and they wish they had. I am so alone 😦

    • Ken Says:

      There’s a fine line between being realistic and being arrogant, and I agree, it’s not couth to talk about yourself that way in this (any?) culture. I wrote this about 6 years ago now, and I feel differently at this point. You have to just take what people have to offer instead of looking for people who are offering what you want. And it’s hard to find a person who fulfills many facets of your needs, but over time if you’re a good friend and lover, people accumulate in your life that fill most of those voids one at a time.

  77. Katie Says:

    I realize that you composed this post a couple of years ago, but it holds true. I didn’t have the patience to sift through the large string of responses above to see if perhaps you hinted further at your age, but I believe that the age factor has a great deal to do with this insecurity with your gifts and abilities.

    It’s fascinating because the genius insecurity is backwards, if you will. Usually, we feel less than worthy due to some deficiency, but instead it’s the result of a tremendous excess of intelligence. As soon as you reach the far right of the bell curve, it is difficult to relate to the banalities of the average person.

    I’m young and still an undergrad, and I spend a large amount of time searching for some sort of intellectual stimulation. Don’t get me wrong, it is there, but certain circumstances (athletics, classroom dynamics, etc) dictate that I learn to deal with the average humanoid.

    For the most part, I’d like to think I’m a pretty compassionate person, but I am simply not interested in hearing about Harry and Sally’s illicit love affairs or what John, Paul, George, and Ringo did this weekend. Is that so wrong?

    My closest “friends” are university professors, none of which under the age of 27. My peers are not interested in talking about English research in graphic novels (the new frontier) or “fun” sociology projects or the interesting thing I learned in electrical engineering. (I apologize for the randomness of my list, I have a Bachelor’s of Science in Honors English with a Spanish minor ie a BS in English…hilarity ensues).

    In high school, we are promised that “it will get better in college” or “there will be people like you there.” I had fantastic vision of a collection of highly intelligent people roaming about campus discussing high-level subjects such as philosophy, psychology, science, and (perish the thought) politics.

    Needless to say, disappointment awaited, and I go to pretty high-end university which will remain unnamed for the purposes of this post.

    Is our problem that we are nothing more than lofty idealists looking for kindred spirits? Possibly. However, I feel that I am too young to make this kind of claim.

    • Ken Says:

      Your story is similar to mine, and your interests are as varied. And yes, college isn’t better, and neither will grad school be. But you’re on the right track — hang out with professors, and other intellectually curious types. They exist in the world, and you can find them. Unfortunately I don’t think your school or (possible?) future career path will put in the middle of people like that, but maybe I’m wrong. In any case, I’ve found that it’s gotten better as I’ve expanded my social circle and learned to appreciate what others have to offer, even if I’m the only one in the group with interests as wide as mine are. Maybe try a meetup group or two in your area, just pick a topic that’s really nerdy/interesting, and maybe the people there will be like you. But remember: the smarter someone is, the weirder they are, generally speaking. And whereas “normal” people are all similar by the definition of normal, weird people are all weird in their own way. So be both open minded and patient as you look for kindred spirits.

  78. Katie Says:

    Something rather depressing I’ve found in recent development is my almost obsessive need to meet certain social confines i.e. blend in matters of hair, fashion, and other similarly vain needs. It’s a catch-22. You have this deep-set desire to blend but then you have this paradoxical need to explore these intellectual realms far past that of an average college kid. It’s maddening. It’s as though you have to decide: dumb yourself down and be the, in my case, “girl,” or reject most social norms and pursue your own interests. You want to be recognized so desperately for your mind, but then again you’re smart enough to realize that if you don’t play their games by their rules, you’ll be ostracized completely and you won’t be allowed the opportunities to succeed and study and meet interesting people because you’ll be stuck in a dead-end job/life with no prospects of vertical motion.

    • alex Says:

      Why do you find your need to meet social strata depressing? Well, maybe if it is obsessive, obsessive behavior does tend to be unhealthy.
      Otherwise, I don’t think you should see being “social” as dumbing yourself down. Social capital is very important, and attaining good social capital is actually not that easy and few are able to do it. Don’t look at socializing as dumbing yourself down, see it as a challenge and set the bar higher for yourself than others set it for themselves.

      I also want to add that you are in college, hang out with whomever you want to hang out with. If that means hanging out with professors that’s great. Having older friends will not leave you in a “dead-end job/life.”

      I think Ken’s advice for you is spot on. Try to join a group or club, or start one yourself. And if you don’t like the people at your school, look into transferring to a school that has more people like you. Personally, this is what I did, and what I’m planning to do.

      I know you want to find a “kindred spirit,” but keep in mind that the more intelligent you are the harder it will be to find someone who is at your intellectual level and who is also interested in all the same things you are interested in. So think about what truly interests you and join organizations that focus on that area. For example, if you are interested in politics, get involved in a grassroots or student government group. Research? Find one other person who’s into that and find a professor who needs help with their research. The bigger the organization, the more likely you’ll find a few people whose other interests overlap with yours. It’s pretty self explanatory 🙂

    • Ken Says:

      I agree with Alex here–my approach is to treat this exactly like what you’ve described it as: a game. A fun game. It’s not a matter of dumbing down but playing smart. Just realizing it’s a game instead of some big, serious drama puts you head and shoulders above the competition.

  79. Well I may be considerably older than those commenting and would advise you to learn to keep your own company. At college I too attracted the attention of the professors. At that time younger than other students and with less real world experience I found it interesting to be taken in by the intellectual crowd. Perhaps eager for the company or flattered by the attention, I engaged in the exchanges for a while. But then the inevitable happened as with my thirst to learn everything and the rapidity at which I devour information, began to outpace them.

    I became disappointed and found again that I was being used in a variety of ways. Some wanted to be my mentors. Others were amazed at my talents, all pushing me towards some apparent destiny to achieve things incredible.

    I follow your thread and pop in here from time to time. My IQ was last measured at 168/172. top 0.003% (99.997th percentile), factoring in population distribution by age and wow the chances are slim that I will ever get to work with someone like me.

    As my intelligence is divergent I have managed to find well-paying work as an analyst however even at work I am on my own doing the weird jobs that others can’t. I get all sorts of odd projects some mathematical, some technical other written, basically the puzzles that no one else can figure. I like it but then again my colleagues are not pleased.

    So I fear you will find that you can fit in a bit, but not when your guard is down. One day you will without thinking say something that will tip your so called friends off and then it all begins again.
    As for college fill your boots.

  80. Hannah Says:

    I just wanted to add my thanks to the list of comments. I recently took an IQ test and although I have not yet received my scores, I know I did not do well (due to a combination of nerves and tendencies to quadruple and quintuple check…ahahaha.) Still, I empathize with the author and the majority of posters. Although I do not feel like average people are mentally retarded, I do feel as if I am always speaking with children six hours a day. I could have gone to college when I was in middle school-I was intelligent enough and this was even noted-but my parents didn’t want to consider this because they somehow think that staying in school for 12 years is good for my socialization. I have always had poor social skills, partly due to my sensory sensitivities and hatred of crowds, and partly due to the extreme ostracism I faced as a young child. As if being afraid of rejection was not enough of a barrier between other people and myself, my intelligence only serves to increase it. When I do gather the courage to speak with people outside my close circle of friends, it is often a huge disappointment and I feel as if all the effort was for nothing. I have yet to meet someone my age who is as smart as me, however I do have the pleasure of knowing one adult whom I am extremely thankful for knowing. However having to spend all week with these dull and dim-witted children really takes its toll on my mental state. One would think I would be used to it, but even now I constantly question my intelligence and, at times, my sanity. I feel as if I am wasting my life. However I do teach myself things in my spare time. I am learning calculus (didn’t teach it to myself until now because I didn’t become interested in physics until recently) and Russian on my own, and writing a novel in my spare time during school (I have lots.) I am appalled at the rigidity of my school; they will not let me take any extra or AP courses. Once I get over my fear I am going to try and find a way to get around this/petition/thoroughly convince them that extra work would be no problem, but the adults in charge of scheduling already dislike me for wanting to do extra work. How I hate the school system.

    I experience episodes of depression and have somewhat debilitating anxiety. I do not think my intelligence is the cause for this, but I do understand the connection between the two.

    Lastly, I would like to add that although socialization makes no logical sense, it must be done in order to be in an optimal position. This is true everywhere. If one completely ignores the arbitrary social system, they will be viewed as ‘cocky’ and ‘weird.’ It is much easier to be in good standing simply by making a consciously uncomfortable effort to appear polite. Although annoying, it must be done. The interesting and cerebral conversations will have to be saved for the internet (or a person of equal intelligence, if you are lucky enough to meet one.)

    Again, thank you for making this blog. It has reassured me that I am not alone.

  81. James Says:

    Hi there, I haven’t written in a long time and I mostly put my comments here and there on this post or that one. This site is always somewhat interesting except for the point of slow replies or slow messages, doesn’t matter because when people aren’t interested or don’t have time to post it will take time. K so here i go… You guys, meaning everyone on this site, I’d like to know your goals, or your dreams if you prefer putting it that way. For me my goals and dreams were wavering but I always had one thing in mind and it was enjoy life and relax as much as possible lol. Though, growing up society refrains you from doing that and so my goal turned towards breaking this clutch that society has on my life, because to me society is just another cage that people not smart enough i would say or not aware enough won’t see, even though they will feel the effects of it(the stress and so on). That’s my dream though living a carefree life and enjoying my time with my family at some future point in my life. Anyways, another thing i’d like to point out is the IQ concept. IQ is only a measurement of your speed**** towards a certain aspect of everyday life. So your not tested on your intelligence but rather on your speed of analysis towards this particular subject. Plus it is biaised because people who are less smarter than you devised that test meaning you could perfect it further or even change it for all i would care… I have taken one IQ test and it gave me 145 or something, the problem was i didn’t know 3-6 question’s subjects because i didn’t know this or that information. So I was tested on my speed and my speed was fast enough to be top tier even though i maybe answered wrong or more slowly some questions due to lack of information, for example how many triangles fit in a dodecagon(i dont know the greek alphabet and i don’t know what’s a dodecagon).

    That was only to clarify to you guys that IQ is faulty in this manner and shouldn’t be used as a measurement for your intelligence if you post on this blog because it’s plain ridiculous. Especially if you’re smart enough to figure this out before writing it or taking it as a fact. Humans tend to like to believe their thoughts are true mainly based on emotions. Sometimes they are right sometimes no, and that is using mostly emotions as a basis for your judgement(which is everyday people’s way of judging or making choices). MotherofMadness, you being able to analyse everything easily just goes to show your a genius. Having flexibility in every domain of thought, meaning memory and speed of analysis will make up that. For hannah i’d say socializing brings an optimal position? Yes maybe, but it’s done to keep the mind sharp and alert by interacting with other of your specy even if they are stupid or retarded. To me human are not much more than animals because their train of thought is easily predictable on a large scale the same way it is done with animals in their habitat or in captivity. I’m human too but the difference is mainly in my mind. They(other people) like to put me together with them makes it look them feel like i’m their equal or inferior and so on but that’s just their hopes* or beliefs*. Anyways, the main point is breaking out of society. I explained earlier why I would do that but let me further my choice on this matter. Society is first of all regulated by people less smart than me. They won’t make decisions as good as me even though i’m not perfect*. Plus they will lump me together with them thinking I’m just another person. Ok here we’ll stop a bit, am i another person or not? If I sayi’m not just another person i will seem conceited to anyone of course. Now then the judges should be the observers right? But if they are less smart than you then their judgement will be clouded due to many emotional and egotistical point which i don’t enumerate. So let me explain why I am not another person in this huge mass of humans, i said humans instead of animals so there won’t be any deviation off the main idea here due to emotional meddling. Yes so I’m human in body and mind but since I can think more calmly and see more clearly due to my thoughts being faster sharper and more broad, I look like another person, maybe feel like one depending on how I will act with this or that person and I will be like one. The main difference is where my thoughts are and where they are leading me. Guess you could say everyone has their own world in their head, the world in question is how you see your environment and how much thoughts you gather there and make them intertwine together with your personality. That explained, to the eyes I am another person but to the mind of other people if I prove* myself enough I will be seen as different and jealousy or any negative emotions or feelings might arise due to the feeling of inferiority perceived by the animals in question. Like any other animal that feels threatened or weaker in nature, they will get aggressive and try to find weak points in the perfect*** human that they see. Let me clarify for the perfect part. To them i may seem perfect because I’m the best of what they could hope for, but for people that are smarter or better i may seem normal or even inferior. So then one last thing. You guys may feel offended but if people are retarded to you then so might you be to other people. Your turning around in your own heads due to the emotions and your ego(personality) leading the way you think in your own head. Now let me explain something, people cannot live without emotions or the ego(personality) because then we would have no up right left or down due to us being no different than everyone else, we wouldn’t feel this sentiment of independance that gives us the thought and feeling of our own body mind and thoughts or actions. We would see everyone else as us or us as them since there’s not much to differentiate us except for the physical attributes(which won’t be much different in a country, family and so on).That cleared, you guys are smart compared to normal people or smart people. About the level of geniuses yes, geniuses only some of you are. Then I may have seemed conceited and so on during this post but it’s only true and proven in everyday life through experimentation and tests ect and I explained some of it on this blog so you guys can follow where I’m going with my thoughts. That way you can be in my place and understand what I’m trying to convey more easily and clearly.

    To finish, don’t turn around in your head…. Easy to say hard to do ya because emotions and ego are like fused with you but if you could render that part less predominant then your choices and thoughts would be much more and you would be smarter. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying live without emotions I’m saying self-reflect and perfect yourselves. Now for everyone who didn’t think to this level then you know at least you’re not smart enough to think this far but I’m not saying I’m that smarter… The three points are in consideration of the feelings of people who might get offended, we are here to share our thoughts and our theories or proven facts with eachother so no point bringing in the ego over this post.

    Hope I helped some people if this post was only a was of your time or if it was benificial to any or if you feel or think the same way reply and I’ll be glad to have a discussion.

    Until later.

    • Hannah Says:


      Please excuse the lack of eloquence in my response; I’m really not sure how to say what I want to say in anything other than a somewhat blunt manner. I’m going to answer your first question last, because I first I want to respond to your other comments. 🙂

      I think humans *are* animals; we just happened to be lucky enough to evolve a more complex brain than most. Take a cat, for example. A cat sleeps, eats, and is occasionally given attention-and they are contented. They are not aware that they are missing anything more. They can reason at a basic level, just not an advanced one. To a degree, I feel that most of the human race is this way, too, maybe just to a slightly more advanced level. By no means do I intend to sound pompous; in my observation, however, most people are not aware that there is much more to life than what they are experiencing. They don’t realize how much else there is to do, to see, to learn, and I imagine this is because they don’t have the capacity to-unless they do, and they choose not to, in preference of simplicity. Then one could argue that “geniuses” are those who choose to tap into potential which we all possess. I don’t think this is the case, though. But I’m getting off topic.

      As to what you say about emotion and reasoning, I have to agree with you. As I see it, there are two types or morality (or perhaps three.) If there is some type of omnipotent being controlling the universe (god), then there would be an ultimate morality, but if this is not the case, then there would be society’s morality and personal morality. Society’s are, in most cases, what we come to accept (ie., stealing is bad), and personal morality is what we develop ourselves. I think most people accept society’s version as theirs, and defend it just as fiercely, even though they do not necessarily have reasons for their beliefs. Then, is there really any difference between the two? I couldn’t say for sure. Anyway, this kind of has to do with what I’m finally getting at. Emotion is somewhat of a hinderance. It both forms and clouds our judgement (if we feel bad about something we probably won’t do it, but what makes us feel bad in the first place?). If we can, as you said, get past our instinctual pride and selfishness, for example, we can have better, more cooperative lives, lives that don’t involve constantly measuring ourselves and proving ourselves superior for no reason other than self contentedness. I like to think that I’ve achieved this *one* emotional challenge (though there are many more I have yet to overcome.) If someone is better than me at something, I can accept it, and know that we are all good at some things and bad at others. This seems to be a rare conclusion, but I think that the ability to separate instinct/emotion from judgement is also rare. I think that most people don’t have the actual capacity to.

      Take, for example, the Casey Anthony trial. I’m not sure if everyone has heard of it, but it was very big last summer where I am. In a nutshell, there was a woman accused of killing her adorable infant daughter. However, sufficient evidence to incriminate was not found. Throughout the trial, though, she seemed to remain apathetic, causing many to become enraged that she was not convicted. Even though there was not enough evidence to convict her (as this is how the system she was tried in works), people still thought that because it was such a *horrendous, atrocious* crime, coupled with the fact that she didn’t show emotion, proved that she was without a doubt the murderer. I was so relieved when they announced the verdict of Not Guilty, because there, as I’ve said many times before, *was not enough evidence to convict*, and that is how the system works. I may have felt bad that the murderer was not found and that a possibly shady woman (she could’ve just been in prolonged shock for all we know) was being set free, but I knew that that is how the system works. I could accept that. However, literally everyone else I knew was so angry, demanding a retrial, demanding justice. Justice, according to our current system, had already been served. So why were they so upset? Their hatred for the woman and sympathy for deceased daughter clouded their judgement. Anyway, that bothered me, and I thought it was relevant.

      As for my goal? I want to change the world in some way. Cliche, I know, but seriously, I really don’t like the state of the world and I want to make it into something better. I know I can’t do that on a grand scale, but if I can help even one person appreciate life a little more, that’s enough. I think I want to become a teacher, because that way I can help 90 people a year! Seems logical to me. 🙂

  82. This may only be of peripheral interest to most folks following this thread, but it seems like it might be of more direct interest to a few who are interested in understanding more about what makes them different as well as what isn’t known. I just published a recommended reading list on Amazon for books about intelligence testing and giftedness based on the various research programs. Feel free to let me know your thoughts and criticisms about my selections if this is an interest area for you.

  83. James Says:

    Your dream is grand if I could say even though you only influence 90 people a year these people if they retain your main ideas and your teachings will influence people on their own.

    About the animal part, I made this comparison or statement to emphasize the point where humans are as simple as animals in behaviours and thoughts. If you could(follow) be everywhere a person you’ve mapped their personality and some physical particularities be you could know what that person would do before they do themselves. Even though humans are superior to animals the difference is too minimal when it comes to analysing both their pattern of thoughts. I take my dog and any other person it’s the same difficulty, though the dog’s mind is simpler in essence it’s the same because the actions stem from the emotions and ego, the needs of the living being and it’s interaction with it’s environment mixed with it’s personality or temperament when subjected to this or that mental/psychological stimuli.

    Yes you are right emotions if not controlled or regulated are a hindrance but why it’s necessary is because it brings the will to push forward in what you’re doing. Without emotions you would only watch things go by since there is no emotional attachment to it, in other words 0 attachment which will bring you to view this as futile and discard it without putting any efforts evne though this thing could be extremely beneficial to you(food for example). Emotions and ego are made so the animal in question follows a certain pattern of action which obliges him to do this or that(survival neccessities). That’s why when I said people or humans turn round and round in their own heads it’s because they don’t regulate the ego and emotions. They try controlling the emotions(which can be done fairly easily or naturally if you take time to think and relax) but then the ego(the system that regulates your mind/what you need or want to survive or prosper as a living being,ect) puts restrictions to limit your sphere of influence. Conclusion, your put in a limit which is your own world within your mind due to the restrictions sprouted from the ego.

    The restrictions are hard to overcome because even if they are felt, for example you feel the urge to eat, sleep, ect. These are the primary restrictions put but midler ones will lead to a circuit or connections of restrictions which eventually leads to a personality and how a person will interact over this action or this sight.

    I’ve said enough about how the human mind functions so let’s go back to dreams and such in a more specefic way. Dreams and goals are the result of your emotional and egotistical attachment to an ideal or to an emotion sprouted from some occurence in your life. The emotions will give you the will to push forward even though to other people there is no merit or point in what you are doing or trying to do, it’s your own attachment so your own world*. To put it simpler it’s the wants and needs of people based on the ego and emotional deviation each person has(a person won’t have the same emotional intensities and aspects as another one and there is the difference. This comes from how the ego structured this person’s mind throught generations, environmental adaptation and evolution saved within the DNA which will structure the next generation’s mind in accordance with their environment and intensity of their ego*.

    Though it is somewhat expanded in an explanation then simplified into another concept that is more practical for scientifical or analytical use it is the same, a dream or goal.

    About the incident with the mother and child. Normal reactions from normal people, a perfect example that you provided and shows the above explantion true.

    By the way, thanks for a rapid reply and todd ill see if I can obtain some of those books and read through them. Most of them are half-accurate explanations or some may be accurate but lead to the wrong conclusions…. For the books that come out from any university i prefer synthetize the information within the books makes it easier to grasp the main idea that the author wanted to convey and explain. Thanks for the links too.

  84. em Says:

    Hi there,

    Thanks for all your posts, I have found it greatly heartening to find levels of discussions and observations such as yours.

    I suppose for my situation it has been a somewhat lengthy but finally self affirming process, realising my place within (or not) society and importantly trusting this.

    In terms of goals /dreams, I find that I am continually performing / adjusting (or restricting) my thought capacity to fit in with company – somewhat an exhausting process. Because of this, I find myself much more at peace and clear headed when I can exist alone.

    I suppose my goal came to realisation when I fell into a state of infatuation. We all place a projection onto the other of whom we hope to see – a reflection of ourselves, and although he didn’t actualise into this being I had ‘hoped’ for, it certainly affirmed a vision of myself.
    During this process, I began to view an escape from the world in which I now exist. – typically described as the idealists, the world I(/we) see is far from a world I assumed it was and therefore could belong.
    Spending years in books and only recently fledging out into the working world, it came as a shock to me to realise that what I naively assumed as common perception is far from reality and as ideas more often than not praised within ‘genius’ works.

    In terms of isolation, this was an initially terrifying realisation, but I have gradually learnt to find comfort in it.

    My goal is therefore simply to create a sanctuary, in which I can exist with my thoughts, where I don’t need to be exhausted by company, the mundane and can just let my brain relax a little.

    I hope then that I can return to putting my mind to practice for how best to solve clearer issues. One of the problems I find though is often having views ousted as ‘mad’ (or incomprehensible) and so one of the trials to overcome is how best to integrate them, providing solutions into society on a ‘comprehensible’ level.
    (- here I return to your discussion regarding ‘egos’ and ’emotions’ and hope that I too am not misinterpreted.
    In my naivety I have always been honest about my views and ideas upon which many have taken a disliking to. We all have great qualities and as you say, if we could all relax our emotions, drop the guards and share then we’d have nothing to fear, as outlined unfortunately such is not.)

    In response to Hannah, in one of my naiver social faux pas(!) I remember questioning why people worked for money, rather than spending their lives doing things ‘worthwhile’. On the numerous occasions I quizzed this, I received perplexed looks and assumed that people were just too embarrassed to answer. I think teaching is the perfect platform for sharing ideas, children are hugely open minded..

    As how best to achieve this goal, I suppose I need to create financial security & freedom to an extent, to pursue a life where I can exist ‘alongside’ as far as attainable.
    I find great pleasure in observing human nature, but more so with a little distance!

    Best, e

    • Niko_D Says:

      I’m with you there. I love people and love social situations but I can’t be with or in them. Lately though I have had to admit myself that people don’t really interest me anymore as much as I have made myself to believe: to be honest, they have started boring me with their unsurprising – and disappointing – behavior, their body language and facial expressions and speech patterns that tell me almost everything I need to know about them.

      And I hate myself for it. I love people more than I love myself but this disconnection with them is killing me which is why I have too have distanced myself from outer world and made me stay home alone. The least of two evils, at least staying alone I don’t hurt anyone’s intellect or self-esteem by saying something they don’t grasp.

  85. matt s. Says:

    All people fall into a few different categories. The vast majority are sheep/goats/cattle, being exploited by a small group of shepherds/herders. There are some who are dogs, simpler than shepherds but smarter than the livestock, who aid the shepherds in the exploitation/manipulation of the herd. There is a dependence by the herder upon his flock. Others are wolves, who pose a threat to the shepherd and his livelihood, and are thus demonized by him. A wolf will survive with or without the existence of the shepherd or his minions. But, a wolf can use a sheep in the same way the herder would, but he doesn’t depend on sheep for survival. But let’s say the wolf is starving, he can make a fine meal of a formidable opponent, the shepherd, thus freeing his canine brethren, the dogs (who he can also eat, if necessary). By freeing the sheep, he creates a meal for the dogs (if he so chooses), a meal for the rest of the wolf pack (assuming this is not a lone wolf), and the surviving herd assumes a position of freedom in nature without the oppression of the herder. If you are smart, be a wolf, and make meals of herders, if you don’t do this, then you are just waiting on them & their dogs hunt you down and kill you for no other reason than their awareness that you pose a threat to their institution. Relate the lonliness of genius to the starvation of the wolf. On the part of the wolf, I’m using the words ‘to kill’ & ‘to eat’ in a strictly metaphorical sense. But feel free to create your own metaphors for the words ‘kill’ and ‘eat’ , but please, no actual murder or cannibalism. I typed this on a phone so I couldn’t do much editing, but I think I made at least some sense. This is advice ha

    • Hannah Says:

      Good metaphor and good advice, but how would one go about making a meal out of the herders? Is that not a breach of morality, and is it not better to simply keep the peace and stay hidden from them?

  86. matt s. Says:

    Making a meal of herders would mean using your intellectual skills to infiltrate the unnatural system created in antiquity by the herder, and altering it for your own benifit (or better yet, destroying it). Its not immoral, because a herder will hunt down and kill a wolf if he (the herder) becomes too comfortable, even if the wolf has never threatened his flock.

    If the wolf hides, he becomes a part of the system of the shepherd. If you dumb yourself down, and accept the system, you risk evolving into dogs.

    Eventually some starving hunter-man will find and re-domesticate the flock, but he will see them as a gift from God, rather than simply a means of sustainence. Until one day, he becomes bored, and decides that he’s being threatened by those darned wolves, and thus the cruel system begins again… It just needs to be recycled, and wolves are the recyclers of society.

    • Hannah Says:

      I see. I don’t see that as immoral at all. I was under the impression you were suggesting to manipulate, but I see now that I misunderstood.

      How would one destroy the system (or to be more realistic, a part of the system?) Even if the wolves are stronger physically, the herders and sheep vastly outnumber them. How would you suggest one change a system that is so deeply ingrained into the herd?

      • matt s. Says:

        sheep’s clothing.
        make a game of social settings. it should be a fun change for you to “play normal”. be careful though, i’ve wasted alot of educational opportunities doing this (on the university level). don’t “play dumb” so well that you do dumb stuff like let it affect your grades.
        on a grand scale, its hard to say what one could do change things. but on a smaller scale, you have the ability to manipulate any setting you encounter for the better (or more to your liking).

  87. alex Says:

    I am sure you know of Ayn Rand, your views are rather in line with hers.

    That said, I think there are some flaws in your argument.
    So you’re arguing to make a meal of the herder, and that can lead to having the herd to feed your fellow wolves. In that case, haven’t you become the herder? What if, who you think is the herder, is actually a wolf who is using the herd for his own objectives?

    I also want to point out that this “system” is not unique to humans. Many other animals that live in social groups tend to have a social hierarchy emerge. Wolves are no exception. Social hierarchy is not some contrived man-made system…

    There are leaders, followers, and loners, and I don’t think that the category you fall into is necessarily directly related with intelligence and survival competence. Frankly, in your example, I would say that the dogs, on average, were probably the smartest and most adept at survival. Why? Because they help run the flock, they get free food and protection from the herder, and mostly everyone likes them. I understand if you think that this is not your personal life purpose, (which is fine, go ahead and be original, think outside the box, w.e.) but ultimately everyone is trying to find some kind of comfort in their lives, so don’t be surprised if a “herder” goes out to hunt you if you seem to be infringing upon his chances for happiness.

    I could imagine though, that there is a very intelligent sheep who remains sheep because he likes the stability and the day-to-day similarity.

    And as for the stupid sheep. Let’s not forget that they are living beings… keep them in line obviously, but let them live in a way in which they can at least pursue happiness.

    As a last note, I want to point out that there are some loners (independent thinkers) who are very intelligent and creative and there are some loners who are emotional idiots who are idiotically/irrationally trying to make a “meal” of others.

    • alex Says:

      @Matt s

      • matt s. Says:

        The point is take advantage or be taken advantage of. If you bring emotion into it you become the idiot. If you like to depend on a system, and depend on others for gratification, then be a dog. But you don’t need much more than a brain stem to do that. Seems like a waste. Again, a conscientious person would use wolf-status to reinvent their reality for the better. Sorry for the ugly, incomplete analogy. I don’t own a computer and I have to type all this on a phone

      • matt s. Says:

        & the purpose of this analogy is to simplify, not complicate. no, you shouldn’t believe that wolves are somehow an exception to natural social heirarchies. the point is that when shepherds become too comfortable in their system, they search for curses, rather than count their blessings, & thus become the enemy of their environment. wolves are the hand of gaia & have some ability to return things to their natural state.

  88. Niko_D Says:

    Thank you for this. I’m Finnish so if some words used here don’t quite hit the mark, keep that in mind.

    I don’t know exactly my IQ since it’s never been officially measured because I don’t care, I have no interest what-so-ever to know. But what I do know is the constant feel of loneliness which could be described as an existential loneliness – I know a lot of people, a lot of artists, I’m very social (one of my short-comings, I know, would be much easier if I wanted to be a hermit, but unfortunately I don’t) but everytime I’m with people it leaves me a feeling of disappointment when you can see in advance what they’re going ot say and where the discussion is heading. I can’t explain exactly what I’m saying because I get that “I don’t understand” or “oh you are a bit scary one, aren’t you” face and that’s face I don’t want to see, it just reminds me how lonely and bored and tired I am of this.

    I’m so tired of seeing and hearing and noticing things I don’t want to see, how people behave and how little they know about themselves and of people around them.

    So, thank you, at least I’m not completely alone in the universe. Views how intelligence is a huge gift and a blessing are bullshit: I would give it away in a blink of an eye if I could. There are better ways of living than living a life without surprises.

    • e Says:

      I know the ‘oh you’re a bit of a scary one’ too well! 🙂 Try to keep it for close acquaintances only!

  89. Dan Zhukovin Says:

    Hi I am a person of a close IQ (135/150) on the chairman of mensa’s IQ test (I took an extra fifteen minutes to do it since I took a fifteen minute break) and about the same if not actually higher on two other IQ tests (one was a General Intelligence test and another was another one of the more credible ones) (I plan on practicing and retesting until I can max one out soon) I also have asperger’s syndrome as of march 17 2011 11 AM approximately and would just like to talk to another intelligent person-many people who spend time alone have similar manners of speaking that you do, according to psychology fourth edition it could be due to schizotypy in your personality and AS, which is perfectly suited for living, don’t worry about any of it. I have been known to learn entire subjects mostly over the course of a few weeks and am starting college soon…I’m just really afraid of other people a few of them actually planned on beating me badly a few times for the things I’ve said (I tend to argue a lot, insult people, ruin their lives by playing on psychological weaknesses and flaunt ideas blatantly) I was just really, really scared of them and I just want to survive the next seven months alone and attending regular college courses-they’re just so boring and much of the material is arbitrary it gives me feelings of disinterest during studying, I’m at the point where I can’t even think about anything I read since I have so many emotional issues inside of me. I need a friend so I can make it the next eighty or so years of my life.

    • Hannah Says:


      I would be delighted to have discussions with you and possibly be friends, if you wish.


  90. Hannah Says:

    Hello, all. I was wondering if any of you have problems with perfectionism. It is often said that intelligent people do, however I wonder id that is the case. It is true for me, personally, and I find that I can rarely revel in any accomplishment due to an ‘I could have done better’ mentality. Do any of you experience something similar?

    • Niko_D Says:

      Yes! Perfectionism is a problem which prohibits me from enjoying of accomplishments. But what I hate the most is the constant introspection and double-guessing of my own decisions, motives and deductions: have I thougt of everything without my personal motivations clouding my thinking, is this right is this wrong, how can I be sure… Just for a change I would like to come up with something and believe I am completely right, like normal people do.

      • Hannah Says:

        I go through the exact same thought processes. I wonder how those who are so self-assured manage to think that way.

        • Niko_D Says:

          Exactly. I have never understood how they don’t see or don’t want to see the (or how they can go on without even thinking about of) possibility of being wrong. I’m really envious, I’d like to be capable of that. And I don’t know how they manage that since I can’t get a single thought in my head without acknowledging all the scenarios where my thinking could be or go wrong or how the truthfulness of a notion depends on this or on that. Truth be told, I can see why I also could be right but since I know all the ways to be wrong, how can I be sure if this “right” is really right instead of being just another kind of “wrong” which I haven’t even thought of.

          • Hannah Says:

            Very true. It’s so hard to trust onesself knowing that judgement could be skewed. It seems easier in most cases just to forfeit anything that isn’t mandatory. It’s such a negative process but so hard to break.

    • Hannah Says:

      My apologies. :p

  91. Jason Says:

    I think of myself as a logical perfectionist. My goal is mostly driven to achieve quality and precision as can best be done in valuation of the effort needed to create them. This applies to many things in life but I’m thinking more of things I create for myself. I often see everyday manufactured items as junk, designed poorly and greedily with no greater philosophy or care to the whole of life and evolution. Break one piece of junk to buy another in an indefinite cycle. Because of this and my creative skills I often create my own things which never break and I always have a respect for. I built my own home, my furniture, lab table, pumps, bath, and now working on a compost sanitary system among many other things. I can fabricate and create most anything that I need. So for me it always comes down to an equation of what’s out there already made, what is the quality of it, and how much effort would it take me to create that same thing to my standards. I have quiet a temper when it comes to electronics or cheap tools, etc. If they do not live up to expectations they often meet violent ends on table tops and floors. It makes me feel better to destroy the offending mechanism that has ripped me off. I will destroy an item that has flaws before I resell it to another person because I cannot feel good about ripping off another person with an item that does not work for its investment.

    In domestic life I’m rather neat and enjoy being neat, but overall I’d say I’m around 90% neat. The closer to 100% neat, if there was a thing, the exponentially greater amount of energy is needed to sustain that condition. I like to be reasonably ordered as to gain the benefit of efficiency from an ordered environment, for me it take more energy to be creative in a chaotic atmosphere. Taking 30 minutes to find a need tool when it only would have taken 30 second to place it back in it’s spot irritates me.

    In living life, I’m semi ordered, I like routine and equally like just doing what ever. In everything I need to feel free and unencumbered.

  92. e Says:

    Hi Jason,

    you mention that you need to feel free and unencumbered in living life, can I ask, do you live ‘independently’ from society? and if so, how have you managed this?

    I don’t wish to be intrusive but it is something that I am currently battling with…

    thanks e

    • Jaason Says:


      I attempt to live as independently as possible and it’s by no means easy or enjoyable for me and in the end I’m not really independent in my view. I’ve seen some comments about it being easy to gain financial independence if you are intelligent. This is not the case. There is a factor of personality and enviroment. For me I was born into a poor and idiotic religious family so I was confined and limited in countless ways and far too much to go into here. My social skills are a paradox and were retarded in development by my upbringing, I can fit in almost anywhere but with little fulfillment for myself, almost like a chameleon scanning the enviroment and adjusting to match. This is mostly how I’ve lived my entire life through school and adulthood. In the end it’s just draining, it takes energy to fit in and little is returned, it’s always been a one way street for me with other people. I can survey who they are what they want and can provide something but they cannot return to me what I want. So there’s always been a constant hunger for someone that is an equal but I have never met them yet. For the most partly I’ve given up and live almost a hermetic life now, I just have little to talk about to anyone. Needless to say this makes it difficult to make a living. I think a little luck and my skills has been my only way of surviving. Money is nothing more that a poor measurement and record of energy. Energy is used for creative purposes and not for hoarding or spending excessive amounts of time and energy in the pursuit of more energy. It takes certain kinds of personalities to be financially sucessful and I’ve never been one of them. I despise the concept of money, have no desire for it outside of a means to accomplish whatever interest I have at a given moment. I see nothing but usury in the way the economies work. The system does not flow like natural energy, it has it’s own constructs that have been created that are not in congruency to natural law. I have an entirely different mentality and inborn approach to life that has never fit to much I’ve experienced in this life. So I’ve not had much success in becoming financially independent. I’ve had more success in being able to keep a flow of income coming that supports just what I need to get by and little more. In addition to this I also have Hypersomnia, I need 11.5 hours of sleep a day to keep from developing symptoms of sleep deprivation and a form of bipolar moods. This proved very early on to make it impossible to have a full time job without becoming severely depressed. I mostly do contract work partime where I can set my own hours and be outside of a schedule, this is the only thing that works for me, and often I even struggle with this. When I’m not tired I’m super productive. The answer is there is no single answer, it’s a factor, of personality, talent, education, etc. to find the niche that works for a particular individual. If we lived in a utopia that had better collective desires it would be easy for us all but it’s a damn struggle in this world for some of us.

  93. Adam Hrankowski Says:

    Hi Jason,

    I decided to google “Lonely Genius” and found you!

    I’ve only skimmed your article so far, but I’d like to comment on this anticipated objection: “Isn’t it pompous to call yourself a “genius”?”

    This is an example of someone’s accusing you a sin, and in so doing, committing the same sin themselves. How is it pompous to call yourself a genius? Is genius a virtue? The only way I could think you were being pompous is if I myself somehow believe that a genius is somehow better than anyone else.

    Let’s suppose that someone who is, say, 7 feet tall is the same spot on the normal curve for height as you are on the normal curve for intelligence. If I am 7 feet tall, am I pompous for identifying myself as such? If I write a blog about how difficult it is to function in a world built for shorter people, am I pompous? I can’t find pants that fit, a car to drive, or a woman to kiss without hurting my back. Am I pompous for saying so?

    The intellectual that I am, let me just respond to such nonsense with a well-phrased phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht!

  94. Jeanne Says:

    Actually, “Genius IQ Level” is the proper terminology. It doesn’t mean the person is a “genius” in the way common speech takes the word. It only means you have an IQ tested above a certain number (which varies, depending on the test and which standards you’re following).

    “Genius level” people can be found in all the walks of life, though. Some of them may be more financially successful than others, but such has little to do with intelligence, I think. How much money you want to accrue is more a personal choice.

    Just as important is your background. A “high genius” (180+) born in a hut in Ethiopia will, by necessity, have very different views on life than one born in a military family in Shanghai. High IQ does not over-ride class and culture.

    Extremely gifted people share far too little to find any form of comfort in the company of their peers. The best tool you have to achieve personal happiness is the one between your ears. While intelligence gives you an edge in learning and solving problems, wisdom is a completely different issue.

    Each one has the power to find our road to happiness and comfort on our own, though. The tools we have are good enough for that. So, even if doomed to perpetual loneliness, never fear: it could be for the best. The important thing is being able to enjoy your own company. And find a way to give focus to your intellectual power.

    You don’t have to change the world, only to find your place in it. At least, in my opinion.

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